Fwd: Any reference terms for frozen hide?

[Bryan Gordon]

Howdy Jimm!

It's not a given that the motion verb template functions the same across all
the languages, BUT I think it's a really nice working hypothesis that it
does work the same or almost the same, and we can all test it in our
respective languages to see how much the same it does work.

If you refer to the chart we got from Linda, there were some languages that
had more complete repertoires of motion verbs than others. For instance, I
remember that most of the languages collapsed the verbs of departure and
motion-in-progress together, and distinguished them from verbs of arrival.
But there were some that had three separate categories for these. Also, I
remember that the verbs of departure, for some reason, seemed to be composed
of the other two categories in most cases.

Omaha-Ponca seems in a more archaic form to have distinguished all three,
but in its modern form only to distinguish the two. You see those "combined"
forms like hidhe in older texts.

Another note: OP arrival verbs seem to be aspectually accomplishment verbs
(that is, they entail a bounded activity, a process with a definite
termination point). This is very different from English arrival verbs, which
are aspectually achievement verbs (that is, they entail just the termination
point, not the process that precedes it). Is it the same for other Siouan
languages?

By way of explanation, in English, we would say, "After work I went home and
ate," while in OP we would say "After work I arrived back there at home and
ate." You only use the OP motion verb "go back there" when the motion is in
progress or has just begun, and you only use the English arrival verb when
you're not interested in the motion part.

- Bryan

2007/2/8, goodtracks at peoplepc.com <goodtracks at peoplepc.com>:
>
> Bob:
> In another matter, at last years conference in Billings, LindaC provided
> an
> interesting and clear presentation on Siouan Motion Verbs based on how
> they
> are applied in Assiniboin.  You'll recall that she grouped the eight verbs
>
> into to two groups.  Each were based on where the action was initiated.
> Group A  departed from "here".
> Group B   departed from "there".
>
> I still hope to do a test application of her scheme to the characters and
> persons in the IOM traditional stories movements and narratives to
> determine
> that her scheme funtioned the same for IOM.
>
> My question today is:
> Is it a "given" that her application indeed funtions the same across all
> Siouan languages without exception, OR
> Are there variations in applications noted for Dhegiha, Dakotan, Mandan &
> Missouri River, and even Winnebago languages?
> Jimm
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Rankin, Robert L" < rankin at ku.edu>
> To: <siouan at lists.colorado.edu>
> Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 9:42 AM
> Subject: RE: Any reference terms for frozen hide?
>
>
> Bill,
>
> Sorry, I'm afraid I can't help with this one.  Nothing in my files from
> Kansa or Quapaw.  Unfortunately most linguists don't collect a whole lot
> of
> specialized vocabulary -- and we should.  I fear a lot of the detailed
> terminology of traditional practices may be gone forever.  I'll be
> interested to see if anyone else has something for this.
>
> Bob Rankin
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: owner-siouan at lists.colorado.edu on behalf of Billy Maxwell
> Sent: Mon 2/5/2007 9:16 PM
> To: siouan at lists.colorado.edu
> Subject: Any reference terms for frozen hide?
>
>
>
> I usually enjoy all your comments and observations, but I need your
> help.
> I could be losing it, but I could have sworn I read a Siouan term for a
> worked hide that was put out in the cold after braining.
> I cannot remember where I located that, but I cannot find the source
> anywhere. If anyone knows of a reference to this please
> let me know.
>
> There are those that say this was not done, yet I have done it on
> advise from the "granny squad" who did do it for their best hides.
> Matters not which language, just sling the terms and references at me
> if you know of them.
> Thanks in advance. Billy Maxwell
>
>
>
>
>
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