(Fwd) Re: Deictic motion verbs
Johannes Helmbrecht
johannes.helmbrecht at sprachlit.uni-regensburg.de
Tue Feb 20 09:29:31 UTC 2007
Dear Jimm,
thank you very much for sending around this list with deictic motion verbs in
IOM. Most of the forms and meanings are quite familiar to me, because they have
obvious correspondences in Hocank. Taking Linda's systematic description of the
forms as a point of departure, it is easy to compare the deictic motion verbs
formally and semantically. The respective forms in Hocank are given in the table
below, which I adapted from Linda's dissertation (I hope you receive this table
uncorrupted). The forms behind the slashes are your IOM forms; (abbrev. DC =
deictic center, usually the speaker)
phase of motion
begin
be on the way
arrive
-motion toward DC
[GO]
-motion towards base
rée/re
raahé
hii/hi
+motion towards base
keré/gre
karahé
gii/gi
+motion toward DC
[COME]
-motion towards base
húu/hu
huuhé/huhe
jíi/ji
+motion towards base
gúu/gu
guuhé/guhe
kirí/gri
Now, all forms in IOM have exact correspondences in Hocank except two of them,
the first one hire (go off; depart) and 10. gigre (go by; going away; be gone)). There is a verb in Hocank
hiiré 'to go by', 'to go through', 'to go to', which seems to be the cognate of the first form in your list. I suspect it does not
belong to the list of deictic motion verbs. At least in Hocank, we do not count is as a deictic motion verb (but who
knows). The second IOM form gigre has no direct cognate in Hocank (we have no similar form in the dictionary), but it
looks to me like a composition of gi-gre and gre corresponds in Hocank to kere (see the table!). I suspect the IOM gi- is
related to ki-(REFL)/ or gi- (BEN) in Hocank, but I have no oppinion about this.
Right now, Iren Hartmann (my research assistant) and myself are compiling a list of combinations of deictic motion
verbs with each other and with other verbs in order to find out somthing about the asymmetries in the usage (and
semantics, markedness, grammaticalization) of these forms in Hocank.
On the other hand the two forms I marked in blue in the table above are missing in IOM? These are
the 'being on the way' or 'progressive/ continuative' forms - certainly the marked forms (it is
obvious, that these forms are composed historically). Interesting, isn't it?
All the best,
Johannes
---------- Ursprüngliche Nachricht / Original message ----------
Datum:Wed, 14 Feb 2007 14:55:35 -0600 Antwort
an:siouan at lists.colorado.edu
Von:<goodtracks at peoplepc.com>
An:<siouan at lists.colorado.edu>
Betreff:Re: MOTION VERBS
Brian:
Thanks for your reply and that of Bob; and meanwhile, excuss that long time to reply.
If you refer to the chart we got from Linda, there were some languages that had more complete repertoires of motion
verbs than others.
I happen to be sitting next to Johannes as Linda made her presentation, so I was able to add on to the lOM lists
those that she left out.
For Group Adeparted from "here". (Follow down on her list as she listed the terms), the corrections, additions
are:
1. hire (go off; depart)
2. re (go; be going; start going). Destination not mentioned.
3. hi (arrive there [going]).
4. gu (depart back; start back[to return here]).
5. guhe (be coming back; approach coming back).
6. gri (arrive back home; arrive back at the place one initiated the action of departing).
Group B departed from "there".
7. hu (start to come; be coming).
8. huhe (be coming; on way to there).
9. ji (arrive there at this place).
10. gigre (go by; going away; be gone).
11.gre (come back home; be coming back).
12. gi (arrive going back there to that place)
You see those "combined" forms like hidhe in older texts. OP arrival verbs seem to be aspectually accomplishment
verbs (that is, they entail a bounded activity, a process with a definite termination point). Is it the same for other Siouan
languages?
IOM is particularily rich in combined forms. I have not ever tried to list them. However, a quick glance at the
dictionary, we find:
Arrive going back; go on by = jigre.
Come here; draw near; approach=jihu.
Go to a certain place = iware.
Have gone home again = gre rustan.
Go having something; take = añi re.
Depart back with s.t.; bring=añi gu.
Come back home & sit down/
Return to one's seat = grinange.
Arrive having something = añi hi.
And so it goes. And I am fairly sure that the other Siouan languages have similar examples to offer.
Now, when time permits, to see how it all comes out in the texts....when time permits.
Jimm
----- Original Message -----
From: Bryan Gordon
To: siouan at lists.colorado.edu
Sent: Friday, February 09, 2007 5:33 PM
Subject: Fwd: Any reference terms for frozen hide?
Howdy Jimm!
It's not a given that the motion verb template functions the same across
all the languages, BUT I think it's a really nice working hypothesis that
it does work the same or almost the same, and we can all test it in our
respective languages to see how much the same it does work.
If you refer to the chart we got from Linda, there were some languages that
had more complete repertoires of motion verbs than others.
For instance, I remember that most of the languages collapsed the verbs of
departure and motion-in-progress together, and distinguished them from
verbs of arrival. But there were some that had three separate categories
for these. Also, I remember that the verbs of departure, for some reason,
seemed to be composed of the other two categories in most cases.
Omaha-Ponca seems in a more archaic form to have distinguished all three,
but in its modern form only to distinguish the two. You see those
"combined" forms like hidhe in older texts.
Another note: OP arrival verbs seem to be aspectually accomplishment verbs
(that is, they entail a bounded activity, a process with a definite
termination point). This is very different from English arrival verbs,
which are aspectually achievement verbs (that is, they entail just the
termination point, not the process that precedes it). Is it the same for
other Siouan languages?
By way of explanation, in English, we would say, "After work I went home
and ate," while in OP we would say "After work I arrived back there at home
and ate." You only use the OP motion verb "go back there" when the motion
is in progress or has just begun, and you only use the English arrival verb
when you're not interested in the motion part.
- Bryan
--
Prof. Dr. Johannes Helmbrecht
Professur für Allgemeine und Vergleichende Sprachwissenschaft
Universität Regensburg
Institut für Medien-, Informations-, und Kulturwissenschaft (IMIK)
Universitätsstr. 31
93053 Regensburg
Deutschland
Tel: ++49(0)941 943-3388
++49(0)941 943-3387 (Sekretariat)
Fax: ++49(0)941 943-2429
E-Mail: johannes.helmbrecht at sprachlit.uni-regensburg.de
--- Ende der weitergeleiteten Nachricht / End of forwarded message ---
--
Prof. Dr. Johannes Helmbrecht
Professur für Allgemeine und Vergleichende Sprachwissenschaft
Universität Regensburg
Institut für Medien-, Informations-, und Kulturwissenschaft (IMIK)
Universitätsstr. 31
93053 Regensburg
Deutschland
Tel: ++49(0)941 943-3388
++49(0)941 943-3387 (Sekretariat)
Fax: ++49(0)941 943-2429
E-Mail: johannes.helmbrecht at sprachlit.uni-regensburg.de
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