Syntax of Lakhota Sentence from "Lakota Eyapaha"

[Anthony Grant]

It's possible to use "though but" in this way in Geordie, the colloquial
English of Newcastle-upon-Tyne, in which the sentence would be something
like: Us are gannin into toon tomorra neet, bonny lad - not takkin you,
though but.  It may also occur in Mackem, the colloquial English of
nearby Suinderland.

Anthony

>>> David Costa <pankihtamwa at earthlink.net> 06/15/07 1:11 am >>>
I can't do that in my idiolect, but it seems to me like in such
dialects,
'but' is just being made more syntactically like 'though', which can
be
either clause-initial or clause-final with no difference in meaning.

Dave
 
> 
> Thanks Willem - your namesake of Occam's whisker-trimmer deftly
> applied! And rightly so.
> 
> Do you know, I had thought sentence-final "but" only applied
nowadays
> in the most Aussie of colloquial Englishes : speakers (d'un certain
> âge) from rural Queensland (some assert)!
> I haven't heard it since I was a lad, when it was probably much more
> widespread in working-class Australian English. I remember such
> utterances as :
> "We'll be goin' inter town temorrer orright, young feller-me-lad!
Not
> takin' you but." ( Unmistakeable air of finality : a pronounced
full-
> stop! I had a blighted childhood. ;) )
> I was quite startled to hear that it is current in other English
> variants. I live & learn!
> Regards,
> Clive.
> 
> On 15/06/2007, at 1:36 AM, willemdereuse at unt.edu wrote:
> 
>> I do not think we need to consistently distinguish sentence final
>> particle from conjunction in the case of an element like eyas^.
>> Lakota conjunctions tend to be phonologically clause-final anyway,
>> rather than elements right in between two clauses. There is only
>> one eyas^; no syntactic change in progress needs to be postulated.
>> If the conjunction is final some degree of ellipsis can be
>> assumed.  You have the same thing in very colloquial English. To
>> retranslate Regina's examples: "I'm walking in a spiritual way; I'm
>> blind in one eye, but..." "Maybe someone has arrived, but..." It is
>> easier, and less colloquial, to do this in Lakota, because there
>> need not be an intonational break or comma between the eyas^ and
>> the preceding clause.
>> 
>> Willem
>> 
>> Quoting Clive Bloomfield <cbloom at ozemail.com.au>:
>> 
>>> Hello Regina, First of all, many thanks for those enlightening &
>>> subtle comments, as well as for the extra data.
>>> Your second example is most intriguing! Is "eyas^" there on its
>>> way  to becoming a sentence-final (adverbial?) particle, (in
>>> addition to  the more usual conjunctional use), I wonder?
>>> Presumably also some degree of Ellipsis is operative? (e.g. a
>>> suppressed concessive clause, or such.)
>>> 
>>> On 14/06/2007, at 5:46 PM, REGINA PUSTET wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Sentence-final eyas^ occurs in my data also. It imposes a
>>>> concessive meaning that is sometimes hard to capture in
>>>> translations. In
>>>> 
>>>> wakhaN-yaN    ma-wa-ni                  is^ta  ma-
>>>> sanila                   eyas^.
>>>> spiritual-ADV  walk-1SG.AG-walk  eye  1SG.PAT-one+sided  EYAS^
>>>> 'I'm walking in a spiritual way, although I'm blind on one eye
>>>> 
>>>> 'although' works as a translation. The next example is a tougher
>>>> case:
>>>> 
>>>> tuwa         lel    hi        sece      eyas^.
>>>> someone  here  arrive  maybe  EYAS^
>>>> 'Maybe someone has arrived'
>>>> 
>>>> Here eyas^ implies that the arrival of 'someone' should have
>>>> been  noticed by the speaker. A more literal translation of your
>>>> example  might be something like 'although I have dealt with this
>>>> in great  detail [continuative -haN intensifies action] (and I
>>>> actually  should have encountered problems), I think it is easy
>>>> to do'.
>>>> iNs^e is an attenuating particle that can be translated by
>>>> 'just'  or 'maybe' in many cases.
>>>> BTW: is there a typo in kechámiN ? I'm familiar with the form
>>>> kechaNmi for 'I think that' only.
>>>> 
>>>> Regina
>> 
> 



-----------------------------------------------------
This email and any attachments are confidential and intended solely for
the use of the individual to whom it is addressed.  Any views or
opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily
represent those of Edge Hill University or associated companies.  If you
are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender as soon as
possible and delete it and all copies of it.  You must not, directly or
indirectly, use, disclose, distribute, print, or copy any part of this
message if you are not the intended recipient.

The message content of in-coming emails is automatically scanned to
identify Spam and viruses otherwise Edge Hill University do not actively
monitor content.  However, sometimes it will be necessary for Edge Hill
University to access business communications during staff absence.

Edge Hill University has taken steps to ensure that this email and any
attachments are virus free.  However, it is the responsibility of the
recipient to ensure that it is virus free and no responsibility is
accepted by Edge Hill University for any loss or damage arising in any
way from its use. 
-----------------------------------------------------