HAVE PITY

[Rankin, Robert L]

I think what I'm suggesting is that udaN 'press into' and udaN 'be good, charitable' are homonyms.  The argument rests on semantics/meaning.  'heart' + 'press into' doesn't make as good sense as 'heart' with a meaning more like Omaha udoN.  Kaw and Omaha also have the root daN 'push' (badaN, yudaN, etc.).  As far as I know it's pronounced the same as -daN 'good'.  To differentiate them one has to appeal to meaning.  Since I don't know I/O this can only be a suggestion.
 
Bob

________________________________

From: owner-siouan at lists.colorado.edu on behalf of Jimm GoodTracks
Sent: Fri 8/31/2007 10:53 AM
To: siouan at lists.colorado.edu
Subject: Re: HAVE PITY



Bob:
I had already checked the root, which is -daN (move; press) and with the
insep. prep "u- (in, into, within) does give: udáN (pressed towards).
I also noted the root in the word  awádaN (press on, press down on).  An
application of this word would be as in:  pressing down on one's hair with
the hand, OR pressing down on s.t. with the foot.

And yes, the word is used as you say in the context of "bless" in prayer
invocations and ceremonial use.
Jimm

----- Original Message -----
From: "Rankin, Robert L" <rankin at ku.edu>
To: <siouan at lists.colorado.edu>
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 10:12 AM
Subject: RE: HAVE PITY


Jimm,

I'm not sure about the 3rd pl., but I'm wondering if the stem, /?udoN/,
might not be more closely related to the Omaha and Ponca udoN that has more
of a meaning like 'good', and in Kaw, 'good' or 'honorable'.

In Kansa and Osage the verb often translated 'have pity' is used with the
sense of 'bless' in prayers.  But the root is different, /k?e/ with a
causative.

Bob

________________________________

From: owner-siouan at lists.colorado.edu on behalf of Jimm GoodTracks
Sent: Thu 8/30/2007 9:26 PM
To: siouan at lists.colorado.ed
Subject: HAVE PITY


Bob, John, Rory, Johannes and whoever:

Below you see the conjugation in Ioway, Otoe for "have pity".  Also, there
are two of a number of examples of usage.
I have in question the third person plural, which may be in error.

The verb is composed from "náhje (heart)" and udán (be depressed toward).
Would the 3PP be:
nat^úndanwi   =   [nat^ + (hin-) + udán + wi]


(I..., nat^úhadan; you..., nat^úradan; we..., hínnat^údanwi; they...,
nat^údanñe).    Nat^úhindañe ke,  I am pitied.   Nat^úrigradan ke,  I took
pity on you, my own one.

I check for examples on Johannes HocakLex, but I found no examples.  So I
checked out examples taken from Radin:

nadjirodja  =  take pity on; bless someone.
nadjironidja na  =  I take pity on you;
nadjiroradjagi  =  We take pity on you;
nadjirodjana  =  They take pity on him;
nadjirodjogi  =  They take pity on him;

nadjodjapi ja  =  be pitied;
nadjonidja  =  I pitied you;
nadjonidja wina  =  we pity you;

The above Hochank ~ Winnebago examples are not especially helpful in
resolving my question above.  Perhaps, in Dhegiha, there may be a better
comparison.
Jimm



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