JOD's terrible 'teens'

[Catherine Rudin]

I don't remember if I ever got any kki edi forms, but I doubt it -- I never elicited
numbers specifically, and they didn't tend to come up in conversation much.  (And were
sometimes in English when they did.)  

>>> "Jill Greer" <Greer-J at MSSU.EDU> 2/4/2010 11:51 AM >>>
Interesting stuff -  as a simple (and probably irrelevant!) aside, remember we can do
that in English for sake of meter, even if it's not the common way to say it -  I'm
thinking "four and twenty blackbirds baked in a pie...."  Of course,  "fourscore and
seven years ago" also comes to mind...  
 
Jill Greer

>>> Bryan James Gordon <linguista at gmail.com> 2/4/2010 11:16 AM >>>
I've run into this ki-edi form before too. A quick scan of Dorsey says no, and if it'd
been in your Grandma's lexicon you'd know that, so maybe it was in Catherine's field
tapes. Catherine?

2010/2/4 Mark J Awakuni-Swetland <mawakuni-swetland2 at unlnotes.unl.edu>


Yesterday in a conversation with one of my UNL speakers, Grandma Delores Black recalled
hearing her eldest grandmother counting to ten in the conventional way, then using the
kki edi followed by a second number for the teens. 

gtheboN kki edi shoNkka => 10 kki edi 9 

with the kki edi variously glossed as 'also', 'and' or something similar. 

Grandma Delores recalled her mother using the current agthiNshoNkka form. 

I did not specifically ask about 12, since it has a non-agthiN pattern today 

shappe noNba 
six two 

I will try to elicit this set again from the other speakers with an eye towards what
Grandma Delores described. 


Uthixide 






"Rankin, Robert L" <rankin at ku.edu> 
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02/02/10 08:57 PM 
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RE: JOD's terrible 'teens'






Sounds to me as if they didn't use '19' very often. After all, we don't either except
in dates from the 1900s. They don't use glebaN agi shaNkka or something similar?

I did a Siouan Conference paper back in the 80s (or maybe it was the 70s) on Siouan
counting and tried to show that the words correlated with the signs for the numbers in
the Plains Sign Language. This was a partial quinary system of finger counting beginning
with the little finger of the left hand and ending with the little finger of the right.
This explained why Dakotan for '9' is 'one in the palm'. I don't know how the finger
counting system would work above 10 however. It would be interesting to find out. I
don't recall ever seeing the PSL signs for numerals in the teens. 

The 'nine' word itself is a bit of a mystery. It's found in both Siouan and Algonquian
as 'shankka' or the like. Ives Goddard thinks it's Siouan originally but I've speculated
that it's Algonquian originally. Nobody wants to claim the little bastard.

Bob


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU on behalf of Mark J Awakuni-Swetland
Sent: Tue 2/2/2010 10:45 AM
To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU 
Subject: JOD's terrible 'teens'

Aloha All,

I am working through Dorsey's numbers in the teens. 

He has several definitions for the base number that are not always all 
used on a number. For example:

nineteen

the other nine

the extra nine

again nine

I was wondering what y'all might make of this.

Mark


Mark Awakuni-Swetland, Ph.D.
Assistant Professor of Anthropology
and Ethnic Studies (Native American Studies)
University of Nebraska
Lincoln, NE 68588-0368

http://omahalanguage.unl.edu 
http://omahaponca.unl.edu 
Phone 402-472-3455
FAX: 402-472-9642