JOD's terrible 'teens'

[Cameron J. Pratt]

I should have added

lebra tse wiN (th)iNge 1 less than 10     lebra tse wiNke = 9


Cameron Pratt

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Cameron J. Pratt" <cpratt at stinternet.net>
To: <siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU>
Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 12:43 PM
Subject: Re: JOD's terrible 'teens'


> Osage kithaha = on each side      ki(th)adopa four on each side   kiadopa= 
> 8
>
> lebra tse wiN (th)iNge 1 less than 10
>
> Cameron Pratt
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Rankin, Robert L" <rankin at ku.edu>
> To: <siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU>
> Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 8:20 PM
> Subject: RE: JOD's terrible 'teens'
>
>
> Your /kki edi/ is reminiscent of the Kansa and Osage '8' terms:  OS 
> kki(dh)atopa, KS kiadoba.  This is often analysed as 'again 4' or 'the 
> other 4'.  The morphology of kkia- doesn't quite track though, and I have 
> speculated that the word is actually a borrowing from Wichita.  So I'm 
> interested in the meaning and usage of OM kki edi apart from numerals.
>
> Bob
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU on behalf of Mark J Awakuni-Swetland
> Sent: Thu 2/4/2010 7:57 AM
> To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU
> Subject: RE: JOD's terrible 'teens'
>
> Yesterday in a conversation with one of my UNL speakers, Grandma Delores
> Black recalled hearing her eldest grandmother counting to ten in the
> conventional way, then using the kki edi followed by a second number for
> the teens.
>
> gtheboN kki edi shoNkka => 10 kki edi 9
>
> with the kki edi variously glossed as 'also', 'and' or something similar.
>
> Grandma Delores recalled her mother using the current agthiNshoNkka form.
>
> I did not specifically ask about 12, since it has a non-agthiN pattern
> today
>
> shappe noNba
> six two
>
> I will try to elicit this set again from the other speakers with an eye
> towards what Grandma Delores described.
>
>
> Uthixide
>
>
>
>
>
> "Rankin, Robert L" <rankin at ku.edu>
> Sent by: owner-siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU
> 02/02/10 08:57 PM
> Please respond to
> siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU
>
>
> To
> <siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU>
> cc
>
> Subject
> RE: JOD's terrible 'teens'
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Sounds to me as if they didn't use '19' very often.  After all, we don't
> either except in dates from the 1900s.  They don't use glebaN agi shaNkka
> or something similar?
>
> I did a Siouan Conference paper back in the 80s (or maybe it was the 70s)
> on Siouan counting and tried to show that the words correlated with the
> signs for the numbers in the Plains Sign Language.  This was a partial
> quinary system of finger counting beginning with the little finger of the
> left hand and ending with the little finger of the right.  This explained
> why Dakotan for '9' is 'one in the palm'.  I don't know how the finger
> counting system would work above 10 however.  It would be interesting to
> find out.  I don't recall ever seeing the PSL signs for numerals in the
> teens.
>
> The 'nine' word itself is a bit of a mystery.  It's found in both Siouan
> and Algonquian as 'shankka' or the like.  Ives Goddard thinks it's Siouan
> originally but I've speculated that it's Algonquian originally.  Nobody
> wants to claim the little bastard.
>
> Bob
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU on behalf of Mark J Awakuni-Swetland
> Sent: Tue 2/2/2010 10:45 AM
> To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU
> Subject: JOD's terrible 'teens'
>
> Aloha All,
>
> I am working through Dorsey's numbers in the teens.
>
> He has several definitions for the base number that are not always all
> used on a number. For example:
>
> nineteen
>
> the other nine
>
> the extra nine
>
> again nine
>
> I was wondering what y'all might make of this.
>
> Mark
>
>
> Mark Awakuni-Swetland, Ph.D.
> Assistant Professor of Anthropology
> and Ethnic Studies (Native American Studies)
> University of Nebraska
> Lincoln, NE 68588-0368
>
> http://omahalanguage.unl.edu
> http://omahaponca.unl.edu
> Phone 402-472-3455
> FAX: 402-472-9642
>
>
>
>
>