Saponi vocab from Colonial Virginia

Mon Jun 17 15:07:14 UTC 2013

Thanks Bob!

On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 9:48 AM, Rankin, Robert L. <rankin at ku.edu> wrote:

>  Hi Lori,
>
> Here's the paper.  It's not much more than a reasoned phonemicization of
> the handwritten scribbles of someone at the fort.  Probably the most
> interesting facet is the fact that it may well be our one and only
> attestation of the Siouan-based pidgin that was used in colonial Virginia
> and West Virginia.
>
> Enjoy!
>
> Bob
>  ------------------------------
> *From:* Siouan Linguistics [SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu] on behalf of Lori
> Stanley [stanleyl at LUTHER.EDU]
> *Sent:* Monday, June 17, 2013 8:42 AM
> *To:* SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu
> *Subject:* Re: Tutelo verb 'go'
>
>   I would like to see this paper as well, Bob.  Thanks!
>
>
>
> On Sat, Jun 15, 2013 at 11:23 PM, Rankin, Robert L. <rankin at ku.edu> wrote:
>
>>  Not off topic as far as I'm concerned.  Every little bit of information
>> about the Ft. Christanna vocab helps.  I have a .pdf of the "improved"
>> version of my paper on the Siouan parts of that vocab. if anyone would like
>> a copy.
>>
>> Bob
>>  ------------------------------
>> *From:* Siouan Linguistics [SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu] on behalf of David
>> costa [pankihtamwa at EARTHLINK.NET]
>> *Sent:* Saturday, June 15, 2013 11:36 AM
>>
>> *To:* SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu
>> *Subject:* Re: Tutelo verb 'go'
>>
>>    This is perhaps off topic, but on the subject of the Fort Christanna
>> Saponi vocabulary, Rich Rhodes and I discussed the Algonquian and Iroquoian
>> numerals in that wordlist in our paper on Proto-Algonquian numbers in the
>> Frank Siebert festschrift several years ago. The Iroquoian words look like
>> some relative of Tuscarora while the Algonquian words look exactly like
>> what you'd expect for a dialect that was transitional between Virginia
>> Algonquian and North Carolina Algonquian.
>>
>> Dave Costa
>>   ------------------------------
>> From: David Kaufman <dvkanth2010 at GMAIL.COM>
>> Sent: ‎6/‎15/‎2013 8:51 AM
>> To: SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu
>> Subject: Re: Tutelo verb 'go'
>>
>>  Bob,
>>
>> Thanks for your paper; it certainly clarifies the issue for Tutelo.
>>
>> It is of course peripheral to this List, but Atakapa and Chitimacha do
>> seem to have this oddity of patient pronouns used for motion verbs like
>> 'go', and this could also be due to contact in the region (the subject of
>> my dissertation).  It will require more analysis.
>>
>> I thought Tutelo may have somehow been doing something similar, but
>> apparently not.
>>
>> Dave
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 14, 2013 at 9:22 PM, Rankin, Robert L. <rankin at ku.edu> wrote:
>>
>>>  Sorry folks.  I didn't realize this was a Siouan list query.  I just
>>> neglected to look at the return address. It doesn't matter except that my
>>> attachment may not have been available.  I don't recall trying attachments
>>> on the U. of Nebraska server.  If anyone had a problem retrieving the
>>> paper, let me know and I'll send it in a personal email.  Otherwise, just
>>> read the paper.  It supersedes Giulia's discussion, although I agree with
>>> her that there was a reinterpretation in the pronominal prefix system.  As
>>> you'll see, the reinterpretation involved R-class and H-class verb stems.
>>> The phonologically irregular allomorphs of the actor pronominals were lost
>>> in those classes of verb and disambiguation of the results was achieved (as
>>> in many languages -- French for example) by substituting the independent
>>> pronominals.  Surprise, surprise.  There is little doubt about the source,
>>> and Giulia may be right that it had something to do with the pidgin status
>>> of some Virginia Siouan dialects.  We can't know for sure because the trade
>>> language isn't sufficiently attested.  It may not be attested at all unless
>>> the Ft. Christana Saponi vocabulary is an example (it includes Algonquian
>>> vocab. along with garbled Tutelo)
>>>
>>>  > The independent/disjunctive first person pronoun in Tutelo is wi:ma
>>> (Oliverio p. 148); wi- is the stative/dative/patient first person pronoun
>>> (Oliverio p. 71); wa- is the first person actor pronoun (Oliverio p. 64).
>>>
>>>  No, wi:ma is a compound form.  The original 1st person disjunctive prn.
>>> is **wiɁe*.  It collapses to *wie* in some languages and *wi**: *(long
>>> vowel) in others -- like Tutelo.  The independent pronouns are ALL
>>> derived from the patient pronominals throughout Siouan, but they are NOT
>>> patients by role.  Read the paper and you'll see how I, at least, analyze
>>> Tutelo restructuring.  They just lost the* b/p* 1st person and the* š*2nd person agent/actor pronominals.  1st person wa- has nothing to do with
>>> it.  It's never used with R-stems, and 'go' is an R-stem.  The
>>> reanalysis results in large part from simple phonology.  You can pretty
>>> much ignore any discussion of active/stative semantics in Giulia's
>>> description.
>>>
>>> But pay attention to Marianne too.
>>>
>>> I can't say anything about Atakapa or Chitimacha or whatever except that
>>> they don't have anything to do with Tutelo.  I talk about Biloxi and Ofo in
>>> the paper.
>>>
>>> Bob
>>>
>>>
>>> The sentences Oliverio (p. 63) gives are as follows: wi-le:-ta i-athi: =
>>> 1sgP-go-POT DIR-house 'I am going to the house'; wi-hi:-ok hiyaNka =
>>> 1sgP-arrive--past2 sleep 'I came, he was asleep.'  Note that both 'go' and
>>> 'come/arrive' use the first person patient/stative prefix.  There is an
>>> interesting quote by Oliverio: "...it seems that some reinterpretation of
>>> the active/stative system took place, probably as a result of the limited
>>> use of the language and semi-fluency of most speakers at the time of
>>> collection, and from the probable use of Tutelo as a trade language.  Thus
>>> for instance some verbs of motion, denoting events performed, effected, and
>>> instigated, and typically controlled, by the speaker, take stative
>>> pronominal prefixes, not the expected active morphology" (p. 62).
>>>
>>> So, at least according to Oliverio and her consultants, her 'patient' or
>>> 'stative' prefixes are used for 'go, come.'
>>>
>>> As I said, a similar phenomenon seems to occur in Atakapa with 'go', and
>>> Danny Hieber, who works on Chitimacha, has discovered the same phenomenon
>>> with Chitimacha 'go.'
>>>
>>> So it looks like this deserves further study, not only in Tutelo, but in
>>> other languages (e.g., Atakapa, Chitimacha) that seem to share a similar
>>> phenomenon.  Perhaps Marianne is right; maybe the terminology is the
>>> problem - I'm not sure.
>>>
>>> Dave
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jun 14, 2013 at 5:44 PM, Rankin, Robert L. <rankin at ku.edu>wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>> [The entire original message is not included.]
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Lori A. Stanley
> Professor of Anthropology
> Luther College
> 700 College Drive
> Decorah, Iowa 52101
> 563-387-1283
>

-- 
Lori A. Stanley
Professor of Anthropology
Luther College
700 College Drive
Decorah, Iowa 52101
563-387-1283
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