Question re: Dhegiha and other Siouan quotatives

[ROOD DAVID S]

Dave, while you're at this, keep an eye open for the following.  Several 
people have noted (not sure whether published or not) that Lakota 
complements to verbs that require same-subject for both verbs (e.g. 
'try') do not allow affixes on the first verb, while those which permit a 
change of subject (like 'want') do require that both verbs be marked.  It 
seems like a really logical pattern, so I expect you'll find it true in 
Kaw as well.
 	Best,
 	David

David S. Rood
Dept. of Linguistics
Univ. of Colorado
295 UCB
Boulder, CO 80309-0295
USA
rood at colorado.edu

On Fri, 28 Feb 2014, David Kaufman wrote:

> Sky, thanks for this!  I think I'm going to go through and compile a list
> of attested Kaw serial verbs and how they're conjugated.  Bryan seems to
> think that there could be a sub-category of serial verbs where the first
> verb is not conjugated though the second one is.  Not sure how far I can
> get with this, but I may try and present this, at least the Kaw case, as a
> paper at the SCLC in May.
>
> Dave
>
> David Kaufman
> Linguistic Anthropology PhD candidate, University of Kansas
> Director, Kaw Nation Language Program
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 12:18 PM, Campbell, Sky <sky at omtribe.org> wrote:
>
>> Dave,
>>
>>
>>
>> Not sure if you are still into this but I found this today.  William
>> Hamilton and Samuel Irvin have on page 33 of their *Elementary Book of
>> the Ioway Language*:
>>
>>
>>
>> ha-u-ha-mvn-yæ – I always do so
>>
>>
>>
>> This would be:
>>
>>
>>
>> Ha’ų hamanyi
>>
>>
>>
>> ha’ų – I do
>>
>>
>>
>> hamanyi – I walk/I always
>>
>>
>>
>> Here you have both conjugated in the first person using the prefix “ha-“.
>> There are other examples out there but I need to find them.
>>
>>
>>
>> Hope this helps.
>>
>>
>>
>> *Sky Campbell, B. A.*
>>
>> Language Director
>>
>> Otoe-Missouria Tribe
>>
>> 580-723-4466 ext. 111
>>
>> sky at omtribe.org
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Siouan Linguistics [mailto:SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu] *On Behalf Of
>> *David Kaufman
>>
>> *Sent:* Friday, February 21, 2014 12:54 PM
>> *To:* SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: Question re: Dhegiha and other Siouan quotatives
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks Rory and Justin for the feedback.
>>
>>
>>
>> On another note, I've also been wondering about how serial verbs are
>> handled in Siouan in general.  In the Kaw data, when two verbs come
>> together, the second verb always conjugates for person while the first
>> looks like it can either conjugate to match the second verb or it can stay
>> in the third person (neutral) form.  I seem to recall that in Biloxi,
>> serial verbs *always* match, first and second verbs having the same person
>> conjugation.  What do other Siouan languages do in regards to this?  Are
>> there any hard and fast rules about this?
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks again!
>>
>>
>>
>> Dave
>>
>>
>> David Kaufman
>>
>> Linguistic Anthropology PhD candidate, University of Kansas
>>
>> Director, Kaw Nation Language Program
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 5:15 PM, Rory Larson <rlarson1 at unl.edu> wrote:
>>
>> Thanks for the analysis, Justin.  That makes much better sense than what I
>> had suggested.  Very interesting that the Kaw (a)be particle, which should
>> be either cognate or closely related to the Omaha (a)bi particle, can
>> ablaut.  I wasn’t aware of that; it’s good to know.
>>
>>
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Rory
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Siouan Linguistics [mailto:SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu] *On Behalf Of
>> *Mcbride, Justin
>> *Sent:* Thursday, February 20, 2014 3:00 PM
>> *To:* SIOUAN at LISTSERV.UNL.EDU
>> *Subject:* Re: Question re: Dhegiha and other Siouan quotatives
>>
>>
>>
>> For what it's worth, I believe that what appears to be a second token of
>> aba in the example, aba-daN is actually a different type altogether. In
>> this case, I think it's a case of the verb e(e), 'to say', plus the -(a)be
>> completive aspect marker plus the conjunction -(a)daN, 'and'
>> [e(e)-(a)be-(a)daN > aba-daN]. If so, then, that one really is just 's/he
>> said and,' and the first one is actually the subject marker. But that's not
>> to say that there aren't other examples of the quotative use of subject
>> markers in Ks, even within the same text. Here's an example of quotative
>> akHa:
>>
>>
>>
>> iccikkitaNga akha oo aNs^i waali miNkHe akHa.
>>
>> The Old Man said, "Oh, I'm getting fat."
>>
>>
>>
>> This case is much clearer to my way of thinking because there are two
>> verbal auxiliaries marking the same state (in this case, at rest)
>> back-to-back, one of which refers to 1st person (miNkHe, part of the
>> quotation), and one 3rd person (akHa, marks quotation). It's curious to
>> note that in the audio for this, the speaker laughs after miNkHe and then
>> almost catches her breath before saying akHa, which would indicate to me
>> that she felt it was essential for concluding the sentence. It's
>> interesting to me in that it seems that the entire quoted clause is acting
>> almost like a verb following the canonical pattern (subject) SUBJ (verb)
>> AUX, where SUBJ and AUX match shape in the continuative aspect, as in
>> s^idoz^iNga akHa ghaage akHa, 'the boy is crying.'
>>
>>
>>
>> -jtm
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 1:50 PM, Rory Larson <rlarson1 at unl.edu> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Dave,
>>
>>
>>
>> In Omaha and Ponca, the corresponding article is amá, where you have abá.
>> As with Kaw, it tends to imply ‘moving/absent’.  But we also have another
>> particle, apparently pronounced the same way, coming at the end of the
>> sentence, that implies that the foregoing is hearsay rather than solid
>> fact.  It can stand by itself, or it can be coupled with the ‘allegedly’
>> particle bi to make the common ending for 3rd person hearsay action,
>> biama.
>>
>>
>>
>> I notice the accent changes to the first syllable in the second case of
>> your example.  I wonder if that could be underlyingly a-aba in that case?
>> The first would be the ablauted version of ‘he said it’, followed by either
>> the Old Man’s article abá or a ‘hearsay’ particle as in OP.  One problem
>> with that would be that the ‘hearsay’ amá in OP shouldn’t cause a preceding
>> verb to ablaut.
>>
>>
>>
>> My $0.02.
>>
>>
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Rory
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Siouan Linguistics [mailto:SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu] *On Behalf Of
>> *David Kaufman
>> *Sent:* Thursday, February 20, 2014 1:30 PM
>> *To:* SIOUAN at LISTSERV.UNL.EDU
>> *Subject:* Question re: Dhegiha and other Siouan quotatives
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>>
>>
>> I have a question re: a curious structure in Kaw, and whether anything
>> like it occurs in other Dhegihan or even non-Dhegihan Siouan languages.
>>  The structure involves the articles akhá and abá, used for subjects in Kaw
>> and usually translated 'the', the first being roughly for
>> 'standing/sitting' and the other for 'moving/absent'.  However, in Kaw,
>> these subject articles also somehow seem to have become used as quotatives,
>> or 's/he said.'  Here is an example sentence with gloss:
>>
>>
>>
>> *Icíkitanga  abá, “Anyáxtaga-édan,” ába-dan,  nanstábe.*
>>
>> Old.Man   said   bite.me-then          said-then   kicked.him
>>
>> The Old Man said, “Then bite me,” and he kicked him.
>>
>>
>>
>> So abá, which is normally used for 'moving' subjects and is usually
>> translated 'the', is now being used for 's/he said.'
>>
>>
>>
>> Any thoughts on this, esp. from other Dhegihan perspectives, or other
>> Siouan languages that might have some similar usage?
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> David Kaufman
>>
>> Linguistic Anthropology PhD candidate, University of Kansas
>>
>> Director, Kaw Nation Language Program
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>   ­­
>>
>