Carominga

[Greer, Jill]

Justin and Sky -
You guys with your programming talents-  impressive!

Just one question for Jimm and Greg -  if the original person who transcribed the name was French (or a mixed blood literate in French-  as was common around St. Joseph),  the first syllabie "Ca" could even be /Sa/  or /se/  rather than Key, n'est pas?   I hate to muddy the waters, but all it takes is one person to miss the cedilla and we've switched the sound totally.  These old names are so slippery, but fascinating!

Best,
Jill


On Jul 18, 2014, at 8:17 PM, "Mcbride, Justin" <jtmcbri at OSTATEMAIL.OKSTATE.EDU<mailto:jtmcbri at OSTATEMAIL.OKSTATE.EDU>>
 wrote:

When you showed me that program last year, Sky, I remember thinking, "Now, THIS is awesome!" As a guy who, for years, was asked questions like, "What's my Granddad's name mean?" on a weekly basis, only to be handed a string of indecipherable 'ah's, 'eh's, and hyphens with a few consonants mixed in for good measure, I would have relished the opportunity to see a list the possible permutations presented at once. Now, if you could just build in some phonotactic constraint logic and SQL interaction with some sort of lexical database to provide suggestions--you know, the easy stuff--you'd have the proverbial better mousetrap!  :)  Ah, it's fun to dream!

By the way, the name Kke Leze was the name of one of the last living male L1 Ks speakers. -jtm


On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 7:34 PM, Sky Campbell <sky at legendreaders.com<mailto:sky at legendreaders.com>> wrote:
Justin,

I thought of that too (and even thought of turtle LOL...ke for ketą) but nothing came to mind for the rest.  We have a precedent for this which is a name listed as "Ke Greðe" (Prairie Turtle/Spotted Turtle).  I seem to remember one or two more but can't think of them off the top of my head.

And thanks for pointing out the "g" possibly being the "j" sound.  That is usually one of the first things I consider but it totally slipped my mind.  Man, I really, REALLY need to finish my "character/morpheme swap" program for situations like this.

Sky

From: Siouan Linguistics [mailto:SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu<mailto:SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu>] On Behalf Of Mcbride, Justin
Sent: Friday, July 18, 2014 5:46 PM
To: SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu<mailto:SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu>
Subject: Re: Carominga

Howdy, Jimm,

I wonder about the division of syllables into Caro and Monga. Is it possible that it could be Ca Romonga? I ask becasue, if it were a Kaw name, I'd think it might have something to do with kke, 'turtle,' which I'm pretty sure I've seen spelled as Ca in names before. I would also look at the r as representing either Ks y or l, and -ga part at the end (if it's not been switched, as Sky suggests, which I think is probable) as possibly representing like the Ks syllable j^e, which seems to happen fairly frequently in the names I've looked at. In short, I would expect something like kke yaNmaNj^e, which doesn't ring any bells at all in Ks. Now, I don't know much at all about IOM, lexically or phonologically--maybe this makes even less sense in IOM--but thought I just might throw that out there as food for thought.

All the best,
-Justin

On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 3:54 PM, Sky Campbell <sky at legendreaders.com<mailto:sky at legendreaders.com>> wrote:
The "caro" portion has me thinking of a few possibilities:

kera (as you pointed out)
giro (happy)

The "monga" has me thinking of:

mange (lying down)
mange (chest)
womanke (easy) <-- perhaps unlikely
mąnka (medicine) <-- seems the most unlikely but I thought I'd throw it in there

Last is a "theory" that I have that perhaps somehow, some way, "monga" might be a form of "manyi/manye".  Considering how many examples of "ng" and "ny" being swapped out (sunge/sunye, -inge/-inye, etc.), I wonder if perhaps it might be a version of "manyi".  Especially since that word is used in so many names already and your friend noted that it appears in other names as well.  This is just speculation, of course.  Speaking of which, if they could provide examples of other names that use "monga", it might help us figure it out.

Sky

From: Siouan Linguistics [mailto:SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu<mailto:SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu>] On Behalf Of Jimm G. GoodTracks
Sent: Friday, July 18, 2014 9:25 AM
To: SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu<mailto:SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu>
Subject: Fw: Carominga

Does anyone have some thoughts to decipher the name: "Caromonga."  The last part appears to be "mange" (be in sitting position).  The first could be "kera" (cleared sky).


From: Greg Olson<mailto:caxelolson at gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, July 11, 2014 4:48 PM
To: Jimm GoodTracks<mailto:jgoodtracks at gmail.com>
Subject: Carominga

Jimm, while proofing my manuscript, I came across an Ioway name I had overlooked. Caromonga. He is mentioned insome council   meetings during the 1840s. I notice the end of the name- monga -appears in other names too.

Greg
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