Languages listed in ISO 639: feedback sought

Fri Feb 4 22:10:08 UTC 2000

February 4, 2000

Dear SLLING Members....
I noticed Mark's excellent message about recognition of signed
languages in computer codes...

Thank you, Mark, for bringing this issue to everyone's attention..

As you all know, computer programmers refer to the "ISO 639-2
Registration Authority" for the standard codes used to represent the
world's languages. This helps standardize software development.

In September, 1999, the Deaf Action Committee for SignWriting (the
DAC), and the Irish National Body applied to the Registration
Authority, with the help of Unicode specialist Michael Everson,
requesting that the world's Sign Languages be included. The
application is currently waiting for approval. It was supposed to be
decided upon last November, and then the meeting was postponed until
this month. I believe it will be voted on in the next two weeks.

You can read about the application to the ISO on these web pages:

International Organization for Standardization (ISO)
....application for language codes for Sign Languages...
http://www.indigo.ie/egt/standards/iso639/sign-language.html

Recognition of Signed Languages
http://www.SignWriting.org/unicod01.html

We are already using these codes for signed languages in the
SignWriter 5.0 computer program, typing signed languages from 18
countries in SignWriting, and they are working well. They are easy to
recognize in the java source code...and our programmer likes them
very much....

There were many arguments as to what "three letter codes" to use for
signed languages....we discussed it for weeks on the SignWriting
List...since obviously ASL could also be Austrian Sign Language and
so forth...and of course German Sign Language is not GSL, because it
is DGS in Germany and so it should be - since that is the terminology
they use in Germany!

So finally, we placed "sgn" connnected with the country code plus the
region code of the country - so in other words:

sgn.DK

.....means the signed language used in Denmark....

And if there are dialects...

sgn-ES-CT

stands for the signed language used in Espana (Spain) in the
Catalonian region...etc...so that differentiates it from the signed
language used in Madrid.

In other words it is pretty neutral, since the country or region code
already established for the country or region is attached to the
general three letter code "sgn" for sign language.

The reason this works for computer programmers is that they already
know the code "DK" for Denmark, so attaching "sgn" to "dk" makes
sense that it is the signed language used in Denmark...

And there is much more detail to this..Michael Everson hit upon an
excellent way to determine "Signed Danish" versus Danish Sign
Language:

sgn-dan-DK

means sign-Danish-Denmark

The three letter code "dan" is known for the spoken language of
Denmark...so that is Signed Danish, since it is connected with spoken
Danish...

Hope this helps a little!

Valerie Sutton
mailto:Sutton at SignWriting.org

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>>>From LINGUIST List #11-230
>Please send replies not to me but to
>   John Clews <Endanger at sesame.demon.co.uk>
>Do not simply post them to SLLING-L; he does not read it.
>
>I attach an extract from a request for comments on and contributions to a list
>of codes for representing the names of languages, ISO [International Standards
>Organization] Standard #639. It was posted on the LINGUIST List. You can find
>the full text on the Web at
>     http://linguistlist.org/issues/11/11-230.html
>
>The reason I am posting it here is that the only mention of sign languages in
>the list is a single item, indicating that the Library of Congress uses the
>3-letter code "sgn" for "Sign languages", without further distinction between
>them, and that neither of the existing versions of the ISO standard
>has anything
>at all for sign languages. (Please do not blame or flame Mr. [Dr.?]
>Clews. He is
>not responsible for this list!)
>
>I have written to him as follows:
>
>     "Sign languages (not expanded further)" is about as acceptable as
>     would be "Asian languages (not expanded further)". I will start with
>     proposing
>          asl  American Sign Language
>     and continue by posting a message about your request on SLLING-L,
>     the Sign Language Linguistics List, to elicit contributions from sign
>     linguists familiar with others of the dozens or hundred-plus of known
>     sign languages in the world.
>
>I strongly suggest to sign linguists who are specialists in or familiar with
>other sign languages that you email your suggestions for codes for those
>languages as soon as possible. The
>     Joint Advisory Committee on ISO 639: Codes for representation of names of
>languages
>will be meeting in Washington, DC, February 17-18, and I suspect that
>information should be fed to them well in advance of those dates.
>
>I also suggest that you look at the web site listed above for the
>existing list
>of language codes. It is possible that the usual sign linguists' abbreviation
>for a particular SL is already established in use for a spoken language, and
>some alternative code will have to be found for the SL. This has already been
>done with many spoken languages in the list, such as this set:
>  LC  ISO 639-2   ISO 639-1  Language name in English
>- ----------------------------------------------------------
>      ara          ar        Arabic
>      arc                    Aramaic
>      arp                    Arapaho
>      arn                    Araucanian (Mapuche)
>      arw                    Arawak
>
>A number of entries on the list refer to sets of languages, but almost all of
>these entries are for sets of *related* languages, such as
>      apa                    Apache languages
>While it might make sense to have a listing for "French Sign Language and
>related SLs", each of those languages should also be listed; and
>other SLs, such
>as Japanese and Hong Kong SLs, could not be included in it.
>
>The main purpose of this code is for use in computer systems. While most sign
>languages have no written form, that situation is changing rapidly
>with systems
>like SignWriting that are intended for signers to use. There are also systems
>like Stokoe notation and HamNoSys that are used by sign linguists.
>
>Sincerely,
>Mark Mandel

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Val ;-)

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Valerie Sutton
mailto:DAC at SignWriting.org

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Box 517, La Jolla, CA, 92038-0517, USA
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