AW: AW: Mouthings- question for Stefan

[Stefan Woehrmann]

Hi Ingvild and all,

I am able to present a list of all "Mundbilder" that I use toi describe the
sounds in German language.

Please notice - this is not the list of the "Mundbilder" in
GebaerdenSchrift -

Nevertheless - knowing the background of these symbols is a big support to
understand the symbols for the Mundbilder in GebaerdenSchrift .

This other important list will be offered soon;-)

Look forward to your comment

Stefan;-))


-----Urspr ÿÿ gliche Nachricht-----
Von: Ingvild Roald [mailto:ingvild.roald at statped.no]
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 20. August 2003 15:30
An: stefanwoehrmann at gebaerdenschrift.de
Betreff: Re: AW: Mouthings- question for Stefan


Hi Stefan and all,

I had been looking at the Mundschrift Symbole list, (from February 2002,
as it still is)

Most of the sounds of the Norwegian spoken langauge, and therefore also
the viewa of the mouthings, are very similar to the German. Now I see that
you do not use these hand-symbols that are connected to the face-and-mouth
symbols when you write the signs themselves - that makes things easier.
I agree that we should come up with an agreement that makes it possible to
get at least an approximation to the international phonographical
alphabet, or at least that the SLs where mouthing is common, and the
mounthing that is seen is approximately the same, can use the same symbol
for the same mouth. - We had an idea originally of simply writing the
mouthed word with ordinary letters close to the mouth untill this proble
was solved, but then it is often not the exact Norwegian word that is
mouthed, but only parts of it. An example is the name of our capital,
Oslo, where the mouthing that goes with the sign is O-O .

So if you have a list of symbols withouth the helping hands, I would very
much appreciate a copy,

Ingvild

stefanwoehrmann at gebaerdenschrift.de writes:
>Hi Ingvild; Valerie and listers,
>
>I am very grateful for your question.
>
>Well the point is that there are two different systems that should be kept
>apart.
>
>I invented a notation for articulation - lessons at school and called it
>"Mundbildschrift"
>I think that you referred to these symbols with photos of my son Johannes
>-
>these symbols differentiate between different sounds and each sound is
>associated with only one symbol -
>The hands that are used derive from the assistance during the early
>articulation lessons with little deaf children ...
>
>
>
>
>On the other side - yes in German signlanguage there is a lot of mouthing
>and there is no way to identify the written symbols if you neglect this
>aspect.
>
>In order to show these Mundbilder as I call the movements during the
>articulation without voice - I defined a symbol set for them.
>
>Contrary to the "Mundbildschrift" wich symbolizes sound-impressions of
>spoken language  the Mundbilder in the GebaerdenSchrift stand for facial
>expressions of the mouth or lips - that can be associated with the letters
>of written German words.
>This leads to the problem that some symbols stand for several different
>letters.
>
>Some problems with this symbol set is not solved yet - but I am on my way
>to
>test some different possibilities. As you can see from the SW documents on
>my homepage  www.gebaerdenschrift.de   I combine a sequence of faces to
>enable the reader to identify the spoken word that goes along with the
>signing.
>
>This method works pretty good and people who know German Signlanguage and
>GebaerdenSchrift have less difficulties to study, read and understand the
>documents with high speed.
>
>Sometimes I use more or almost all Mundbilder that belong to a mouthing -
>on
>the other hand some other signs like cat, tree, ... are so obvious that I
>don  ={   add any ...
>
>On the other hand the more Mundbilder in a single sign the easier is the
>task for my deaf students to produce wonderful translations ...
>
>Would love to discuss this whole issue -
>I am sure that there are different SL in the world with mouthing aspects
>and
>I bet that the understanding of written documents without the words in
>spoken language underneath will become better to read.
>
>Of course different spoken languages include different sounds - therfore
>we
>will get different symbols for Mundbilder - but nevertheless - if would be
>great to use  almost the same symbols for similar sounds or
>mouth-movements
>( M  is a line, P, B is a tense symbol, sh is the circle with the arrows
>to
>both sides etc.
>
>I can offer a complete list for the Mundbild-symbols that are defined for
>German signlanguage ;-))
>
>
>Have a great day ;-))
>
>
>Stefan ;-))
>
>
>
>-----Urspr ÿÿ gliche Nachricht-----
>Von: SignWriting List [mailto:SW-L at ADMIN.HUMBERC.ON.CA]Im Auftrag von
>Ingvild Roald
>Gesendet: Montag, 18. August 2003 13:19
>An: SW-L at ADMIN.HUMBERC.ON.CA
>Betreff: Mouthings- question for Stefan
>
>
>Hi Stefan and all,
>
>on your site www.gebaerdenschirft.de , you have a diagram of mouthing
>symbols used in Germany.
>
>Some of the symbols are compoesed of a face/mouth symbol and a hand symbol
>near the mouth.
>
>If these are used to train German spoken language, I can well understand
>them.
>
>But as I understand, German Sign Language uses mouthing as part of the
>sign language itself, as does Norwegian Sign Language.
>How do you write the mouthing when the hands are otherwise occupied???
>
>Ingvild

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