Hooked "L"

[Valerie Sutton]

SignWriting List
July 15, 2003

No kidding? You use those handshapes in NSL? I am sorry, I forgot
that...There are so many Sign Languages I am having difficulty keeping
up!

In fact, recently when Antonio Carlos visited me, he mentioned to me
that he thought there should only be one symbol-set, and not sub-sets
for different signed languages...but I have chosen to create one huge
closet, called SymbolBank, that will house all symbols, but I do not
expect people to use all symbols...It is a little like the features in
software...I only use half of the features that are available in
Microsoft Word, for example, but I am sure there are some people who
are glad they have some of the features I do not need...So in time we
could create some kind of sub-SymbolBanks, for one signed language...

Val ;-)



On Tuesday, July 15, 2003, at 10:34 AM, Ingvild Roald wrote:

> Thanks, Valerie, for putting those shapes in - I distinctly remeber
> asking
> you for them, or something similar: I was talking of the handshape you
> get
> when you have all fingers straight and apart, and can put all the
> fingetips on a flat surface (it is in there now, thank you again). I
> also
> asked about this 'thumbb perpendicular to palm' as oppose to 'thumb in
> same plane as palm'. This may have been at the same time that the
> Parkhursts were asking for the shapes. So yes, they are needed in NSL.
>
> Ingvild
>
> SW-L at ADMIN.HUMBERC.ON.CA skriver:
>> SignWriting List
>> July 15, 2003
>>
>> Hello Everyone, and Ingvild...
>> The dot for the thumb forward is not new...in 1995 I created the
>> symbol
>> set that we are using today in SignWriter DOS...at that time it was SW
>> 4.3...and the Parkhursts in Spain were the first to receive that
>> version...I specifically put in those symbols for the Parkhursts,
>> because they needed a series of handshapes with the thumb
>> forward...and
>> they had to be distinctly different than when the thumb is projecting
>> side...
>>
>> Although these are not new symbols, you may never need them in
>> Norwegian Sign Language, so if your language doesn't use a thumb
>> forward, then there is no need for you to include those handshapes in
>> your Norwegian lessons...there are lots of hands in the listing that I
>> would not use to write ASL too, and those are some of them...I put
>> them
>> in specifically for Spain...
>>
>> Meanwhile, we could always use the thumb as a dot, whenever the thumb
>> comes directly at the reader, but several years ago, on the
>> SignWriting
>> List, we discussed that in great detail, and I thought we all had
>> decided that it is nice to be able to see the thumb when it is
>> side...so we are using the dot for the thumb forward when it projects
>> towards the reader, but not when the thumb is projecting side...Take a
>> look at these web pages with the discussion we had on the List about
>> this years ago:
>>
>> Thumb Forward
>> http://www.signwriting.org/lessons/elessons/less019.html
>>
>> Regarding whether it is counterintuitive or not, the problem is that
>> some hands can be greatly confused with others if there are not rules
>> of some kind, and if there are not true differences from each
>> other...So if you want to discuss one specific symbol that feels
>> counterintuitive to you, please post that specific symbol with a GIF,
>> as I cannot guess which one you mean...
>>
>> By the way, of course I know it looks a little silly with the index
>> finger on one side of the square, and the thumb projecting forward on
>> the opposite side of the square, but at least there is a consistent
>> rule as to when that happens, and it happens with symbols that are not
>> used that much....plus the little testing I did with readers, they
>> seemed to be able to differentiate between the symbols while reading,
>> and that is important too...The Parkhusts devoted several pages in
>> their textbook on these symbols with the thumb forward...
>>
>> So, send me a GIF to show me the specific symbol that is bothering
>> you -
>>
>> Val ;-)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, July 15, 2003, at 02:37 AM, Ingvild Roald wrote:
>>
>>> In the Spanish drawings and symbols, the thumb forward is following
>>> the
>>> (new?) convention of a point instead of a line when viewed head-on.
>>>
>>> In your second part of this little lesson, the hand symbols are
>>> viewed
>>> palm facing, and not only the thumb, but also the index has shifted.
>>> This
>>> is very counterintuitive.
>>>
>>> So sorry, but yes, I still have questions.
>>>
>>> But do enjoy time with your family,
>>>
>>> Ingvild
>>>
>