AW: Dictionary question

Mon Oct 6 14:31:25 UTC 2003

SignWriting List
October 6, 2003

Dear SW List, and Stefan -
Of course you are right...I agree that it is best to start from an 
empty dictionary file. Much better, in fact! It is not a good idea to 
mix languages...I thought Nana would emliminate all the signs in the 
entire dictionary and start from an empty file...The reason I thought 
it might be nice to duplicate the sw001.msg, sw001.key, sw001.dic and 
sw001.din, and rename them with her country codes, is because she could 
then change countries, since her country would have an identity...

So there are a lot of different ways to do it...The truth is that 
Nana's language Tagalog sorts dictionaries very very differently than 
we do in English, so it really doesn't matter which country she chooses 
right now...if she starts a new dicitonary file, it will be attached to 
the sorting routines of the dictionaries from the country where she 
made the new dictionary file....so whatever country you are in at the 
moment, determines the sorting routines of any new dictionaries 
created...and sadly, Tagalog has no country that sorts dictionaries 
like they do, so Nana is stuck with dictionaries sorted by German or 
English...

I am happy to see that Nana speaks German...Nana, have you thought 
about maybe using the German version of SignWriter? Stefan has done 
some remarkable dictionary work in German....If you do that, then your 
dictionaries will be sorting by the German system for sorting 
dictionaries.

Val ;-)

-----------------------------------

On Monday, October 6, 2003, at 05:09 AM, Stefan Woehrmann wrote:

> Hi Nana and SW-listers -
>
>
> I thought about your idea to rename the 001 dictionary -
>
> hmm from my point of view and from my experience there is a problem ..
>
> I would recommend a different strategy although it seems to be a 
> little bit
> more time consuming in the beginning - but in the long run you would be
> better off this way -
>
> just go to the dictionary - manager program and convert the 001 
> dictionary
> if you feel that many of ASL signs seem to be the same ..
>
> Now you will get some 001.sgn files in your SW program -
> Just open the first and browse through this wonderful list ---
>
> If you set up a new original  dictionary for  the Phillipines you can 
> copy
> sign by sign to your new dictionary -
>
> The advantage will be that your dictionary will not be a combination of
> different SL  .. This may cause trouble to distinguish ...
>
>
>
> Stefan;-))
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Urspr ÿÿ gliche Nachricht-----
> Von: SignWriting List [mailto:SW-L at ADMIN.HUMBERC.ON.CA]Im Auftrag von
> Nana Dumitra
> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 2. Oktober 2003 17:14
> An: SW-L at ADMIN.HUMBERC.ON.CA
> Betreff: AW: Dictionary question
>
>
> Dear SW List, Stefan, Charles and Val,
>
> Thanks to all of you for all your suggestions. I think I will try to 
> go with
> the second option Val suggested, renaming the ASL files, because many 
> of the
> signes here are similar or even the same with ASL then I can use at 
> least
> part of the ASL dictionary and just delete the signs that are totally
> different. But for now I will try to do two seperate dictionaries, one
> English - Filipino Sign Language and one Tagalog - Filipino Sign 
> Language.
> Val made me realise that Tagalog sorts a dictionary differently than 
> either
> German (my first language) or English, so I am thinking it makes more 
> sense
> to keep the two separat for now.
>
> I tried again to go to the internet to download Signbank, but as I 
> told you
> before: we have horrible phone connections (at least if you need a lot 
> of
> data transfered :)) - it would have taken between 10 and 22 hours to
> download the running (?) version, well, I stopped trying after I got
> disconnected for the 10th time...
>
> I will just work in DOS for now.
>
> Now that I am "really"starting, I am very excited about everything. My
> husband Marian had some deaf over in the afternoon (it is late evening 
> here
> already) - they wanted to prepare for a Bible study group. They ended 
> up
> talking about SignWriting, learing the first handshapes. I am thinking 
> of
> making a few simple booklets (like children's books) to give them 
> something
> to read and practise on.
>
> Maybe I should stop before this mail turns into a book by itself :)!
> Nana
>
> -----Urspr ÿÿ gliche Nachricht-----
> Von: Valerie Sutton [mailto:Sutton at SIGNWRITING.ORG]
> Gesendet: Dienstag, 30. September 2003 22:25
> An: SW-L at ADMIN.HUMBERC.ON.CA
> Betreff: Re: Dictionary question
>
> SignWriting List
> September 30, 2003
>
> Dear SW List, Charles and Nana from the Phillipines!
> Thank you for your two messages below. I am very happy, Nana, that you
> are working with SignWriting in the Phillipines!
>
> Charles gave you a very interesting idea in his message. He pointed out
> that you could create a brand new dictionary file in SignWriter DOS,
> naming it 063, and then blend the two spoken languages into one big
> dictionary file...That could be done right now...Perhaps you have
> already done this? There are two ways to do this:
>
> 1. Create a brand new dicitonary file and name it 063 or any other name
> you wish, and start filling it with a mixture of languages...This is a
> good way to work, since it will give you an empty dictionary file from
> the beginning...
>
> 2. Create a brand new country code for the Phillipines. Do you want to
> use English, while you are working with SW-DOS? There are three
> English-related countries in the SW-DOS folder:
>
> sw044....England
> sw353....Ireland
> sw001....USA
>
> Someday we could create a special fingerspelling keyboard just for the
> Phillipines, but at this time, we do not have that....so you will need
> to decide which fingerspelling system you want for the moment...the
> two-handed British, the Irish or the USA fingerspelling?
>
> Let us imagine that you choose the USA...You need to find four files:
>
> sw001.msg
> sw001.key
> sw001.dic
> sw001.din
>
> Make copies of these four files and rename them
>
> sw063.msg
> sw063.key
> sw063.dic
> sw063.din
>
> Then start SignWriter DOS and change your country code to 063.
>
> This second idea has a good side, in that you are always in one
> country...but the bad side is that your dictionary file will already be
> filled with 3000 American signs, and you will need to delete all of
> them! smile...
>
> I have more to tell you, about tri-lingual dictionaries, but that will
> have to wait for now...I will need to know if Tagalog sorts
> dictionaries in a different way, than English, because all of our
> dicitonaries in SW-DOS were specially setup to sort properly, within
> the language you are using...For example, just because Spain uses the
> Roman alphabet, it does not sort dictionaries in the same way that
> English does, so the Spanish dictionary files are setup to sort by the
> world standard for Spanish...so does Tagalog sort like Spanish does,
> with special sections in the dictionary for RR and LL? If so, you might
> want to duplicate a Spanish speaking dictionary file instead...This can
> get so complex that maybe it doesn't matter? Try one of the suggestions
> above, and when you bump into a problem, we can face that at that time!
>
> You see, SignBank does not have the problems of SW-DOS, so it all
> depends on what software you choose to use, to create your
> dicitonaries. The dictionary sorting problems, and the true separate
> trilingual dictionary can be created in SignBank easily, once you have
> typed your dictionary file in SW-DOS...
>
> Val ;-)
>
> ---------------------------------------
>
>
> On Tuesday, September 30, 2003, at 12:16 AM, Nana Dumitra wrote:
>> I started to work on a SW dictionary for the Philippines, set up under
>> 063 to match the way other dictionaries are set up. My question:
>> In the Philippines there are two official languages: English and
>> Tagalog. The Deaf are being taught with English as a "basis" but most
>> parents don't know English. Many parents do know Tagalog or regional
>> dialects that are often very similar to Tagalog.  We would really like
>> to set up the dicitionary in a way that we can do it English - Tagalog
>> - Sign Language and with a possibility to search in all three
>> languages. Is there a way to do it in SW44 DOS? So far I did it just
>> English - Sign Language. My husband suggested to just enter the
>> Tagalog word next to the English word. That is better than nothing,
>> but makes it hard when people want to look up a word using Tagalog as
>> the search language. Any suggestions? By the way, Val, the lessons on
>> how to use the ASL - English dictionary look very interesting, I hope
>> to study them a bit more this afternoon. Thanks for all your work for
>> us! Greetings from the Philippines, Nana
>
> ----------------
>
> Charles Butler wrote:
>> As far as I can tell, Nana, the SW 4.4 dictionary sorts on the English
>> alphabet, not on English, so that if Tagalog is written with Roman
>> characters, you can just enter it as you normally would.  Your
>> dictionary will be a blend of English and Tagalog and Phillipino Sign
>> Language, but the two spoken languages can both be entered.  You'd
>> have to do two entries for each sign language entry, English/Tagalog,
>> Tagalog/English, but at least the entries would be in there.
>