AW: My First SW Posting

Sat Sep 6 10:07:40 UTC 2003

Hi Sandy and listmembers,

thanks for your quick response -- ;-))

Sandy wrote :

"I like the way the mouth movements can be shown even for English words -
that's something I never thought of. I think it would be all right to leave
out the middle face in "Sheff": at least the way I sign it, it's not really
made distinct - I'd just go "shff", I think. I'll have to watch in future
for exactly what other signers do - I'd a feeling learning SW would make me
think more clearly about how poeple sign! Similarly, I'd go "pth" for Perth,
"glzo" for Glasgow, "chsf" for Chesterfield - in otherwords, I tend to miss
out elements that I myself can't lipread, but these might just be my own
habits, I'll need to observe how other people do these in future. "

I think that future will show how much other SW-scribes of different Sl in
the world will focus more on this aspect in signing.
When I wrote my first row of your UK- cities I watched myself - as a
foreigner I would perform Mundbilder as I showed in my first example
(chesterfield.gif)

It is great that you observed a different performance in your own signing -
so this is a proof that the better your feeling for a SL the more accurat
you are able to identify "Mundbilder" as a part of this sign.

In German Language there is no "th" like in Perth - but symbol # 334 fromthe
Sutton-Symbol - Sequence 2002 can be taken for that pperfectly;-)

(Do you have the whole list of the SSS - 2002 ??? It is very, very helpful!)

The idea of writing SL is to support myself in learning how to perform the
movement. It is a little bit tricky. If you go along and write your own
spelling (having in mind the meaning of your sign) be sure that the
uninformed - but competent SW- reader has got a chance to read (=
understand) not only the performance but the meaning as well .

There is no chance to know any name-sign until you are informed - so the
line underneath is a valuable additiv and I am thankful to James who started
to use this line as a marker for proper names.  (I am not sure - for cities,
contries, places as well - as I do --- James ? Do you read this?? )

Nevertheless using Mundbilder - if the signer performs mouthmovements during
his performance - is a big support to identify many signs later.
It would make sense to check different SL for the differences of their
Mundbilder - .. I defined a set for the German area but these can only be
kind of background for other scribes who are confronted with similar
questions ...

" reading downwards on a page was
supposed to show one slightly left of the centre lane, then one slightly
right."

- I changed the spelling  for Chesterfield - so now you see both hands
moving from left to right a bit while the fingertips keep contact -

Your correction is a wonderful example for the fact that the competent
signer identifies critical parameter, that might be unobserved or forgotten
if a uninformed partner tries to describe it. On the other hand - you see -
without SignWriting there would not be the background to discuss these
differences so clearly - smile ;-)

Well - I am not used to writing downwards - almost 98 % of my documents are
written from left to right. Nevertheless it is no problem to understand that
the start of a movement is located slightly to the left or right ... The
Mundbilder-heads are often a wonderful and welcome fixpoint - If the row of
the Mundbilder- sequence goes to far a add a shoulder line to show where the
movement takes place ..

"I'm not sure why you added the horizontal lines in Glasgow. I assume this
shows the forearms - but why is it necessary?"

You are right! The lines show the forearms. I learned from my young students
that the symbol of the fist "Quadrat" is hard to read because you do not
know - where the forearm or the thumb sticks out -
There are several signs  - like "coffee" - when you get used to read them
without a problem - but others are better to understand from the point of a
beginner if you add the forearm line - (the lenght of it depends on the sign
in my spellings - just long enough to not get in trouble with the
middlefinger)

"Thanks again for re-doing those signs - I'm really pleased that they're not
all COMPLETELY different from my efforts!"

Do not worry about your first efforts in writing SW. It takes a long time
and the members of the list are busy all the time to learn how to use the
symbols and how to "design" signs so that the competent but uninformed
reader has a chance to identify the movement ...

I am looking forward to more city-names - (by the way how to you sign
England, London, is there a typical namesign for Queen Elizabeth)

Stefan;-)

-----Urspr ÿÿ gliche Nachricht-----
Von: SignWriting List [mailto:SW-L at ADMIN.HUMBERC.ON.CA]Im Auftrag von
Sandy Fleming
Gesendet: Samstag, 6. September 2003 08:52
An: SW-L at ADMIN.HUMBERC.ON.CA
Betreff: Re: My First SW Posting

Hi Stefan and everone!

Thanks for the revised signs - there are a lot of definite improvements in
there!

I was puzzled at why you left out the thumb and forefinger from "Perth" but
now realise of course the circle already implies an "O" hand.

I like the way the mouth movements can be shown even for English words -
that's something I never thought of. I think it would be all right to leave
out the middle face in "Sheff": at least the way I sign it, it's not really
made distinct - I'd just go "shff", I think. I'll have to watch in future
for exactly what other signers do - I'd a feeling learning SW would make me
think more clearly about how poeple sign! Similarly, I'd go "pth" for Perth,
"glzo" for Glasgow, "chsf" for Chesterfield - in otherwords, I tend to miss
out elements that I myself can't lipread, but these might just be my own
habits, I'll need to observe how other people do these in future.

One thing that seems to be missing from your version of Chesterfield is that
the sign starts slightly to the left of the head and ends slightly to the
right. This is why I did it as two signs - reading downwards on a page was
supposed to show one slightly left of the centre lane, then one slightly
right. Without this, the sign as written looks more like the one for the BSL
for "kiss". How would you show that the whole sign moves smoothly over to
the right as the forearms twist?

I'm not sure why you added the horizontal lines in Glasgow. I assume this
shows the forearms - but why is it necessary?

Thanks again for re-doing those signs - I'm really pleased that they're not
all COMPLETELY different from my efforts!

Sandy Fleming
http://sandyfleming.org/

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stefan Woehrmann [mailto:stefanwoehrmann at gebaerdenschrift.de]
> Sent: 06 September 2003 00:08
> To: sandy at scotstext.org
> Subject: AW: My First SW Posting
>
>
> Hi Sandy and listmembers,
>
> the combination of your description and your handwritten
> SW-spellings helped
> me to learn new name-signs for cities in the UK
>
> I add these signs to my dictionary for names of persons and cities and I
> added Mundbilder in order to be able to read/understand the signs
> after some
> time again - the line underneath is a hint that this is a name-sign ....
>
> There are almost always some different ways to "design" a good spelling -
>
> Just compare the attached gif with your "first handwritten signs" -
>
> I am looking forward to more namesigns ,,,
>
>
> Stefan ;-))
>
>
> -----Urspr ÿÿ gliche Nachricht-----
> Von: SignWriting List [mailto:SW-L at ADMIN.HUMBERC.ON.CA]Im Auftrag von
> Sandy Fleming
> Gesendet: Freitag, 5. September 2003 20:36
> An: SW-L at ADMIN.HUMBERC.ON.CA
> Betreff: Re: My First SW Posting
>
>
> Valerie,
>
> Oh, sorry! I meant to supply the URL but forgot!
>
> It's: http://sandyfleming.org/bsl/towns.htm
>
> Sandy
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: SignWriting List [mailto:SW-L at ADMIN.HUMBERC.ON.CA]On Behalf Of
> > Valerie Sutton
> > Sent: 05 September 2003 19:18
> > To: SW-L at ADMIN.HUMBERC.ON.CA
> > Subject: Re: My First SW Posting
> >
> >
> > SignWriting List
> > September 5, 2003
> >
> > Sandy Fleming wrote:
> > > I've just put up a small table with five handwritten signs for towns
> > > in the
> > > UK - I'd be interested in any feedback from anyone on these about
> > > anything
> > > that could be improved. It wouldn't surprise me if everything's all
> > > wrong at
> > > this stage, so you can criticise all you like  :)  If I'm going in the
> > > right
> > > direction then I'll start expanding it and making it look better
> > > (including
> > > using SW-DOS!), and link it into my main site for other people to
> > > reference.
> >
> >
> > Hi Sandy!
> > Great...Can you send the GIF or jpeg of your SignWriting examples to
> > the SignWriting List? Sharing your SignWriting is an important part of
> > our List, and people send GIFs or jpegs as attached files all the
> > time...So we have not seen your writing yet, but we look forward to it!
> >
> > Val ;-)
> >
>
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