[sw-l] Re: Country and Language Codes, and standardization with ISO

Tue Sep 28 20:45:59 UTC 2004

SignWriting List
September 28, 2004

Hello Charles -
Actually there is a whole system setup to code the different signed 
languages within one country. We would never use the term ASL, because 
that is not an ISO code, since ASL can mean Armenian Sign Language or 
any sign language beginning with a word that starts with A. Instead, 
the ISO coding system for different languages within one country is 
like this:

Taking Canadian spoken languages as an example:

en-CA
fr-CA

or

CA-en
CA-fr

That is English spoken in Canada and French spoken in Canada. And if 
you were trying to connect a signed language to those regions, then you 
add the sgn to those, becoming:

sgn-CA-en
sgn-CA-fr

meaning the American Sign Language that is used in English-speaking 
Canada, and French-Canadian Sign Language. The fr regional code is 
representing the area in Canada where French is spoken...

Based on that system, the many signed languages of the United States 
can also be represented. When the sgn is connected only to a country 
code, and there is no regional code attached, that means the 
naturally-evolved signed languages of the Deaf of the entire country:

sgn-US

But you can add regional codes, or even dialectal codes...I am not that 
educated to the details, but if your Indian Language you mention is 
specific to an area or group, then an ending can be attached to show 
that it is not the same as ASL, which is sgn-US, but that it is in the 
US none-the-less.

If you go to this web page

http://www.evertype.com/standards/iso639/sgn.html

and scroll down you will see some pretty amazing dialects or languages 
in the US...For example, there are the codes for:

sgn-US-ma.....Martha's Vineyard Sign Language
sgn-CA-nu......Eskimo Sign Language in northern Canada
sgn-US-sd.....Plains Talk Indian Sign Language in South Dakota...

sgn-eng-US....this one is the way they approved doing invented signed 
languages, such as Signed English in the US
sgn-eng-GB...Signed English in Great Britain

So there seems to be a code for everything already! Only 15 have been 
registered with the ISO however...through our DAC...

Val ;-)

---------------------

On Sep 28, 2004, at 1:09 PM, Charles Butler wrote:

> If you were to use SGN-US, alone, you miss PSD (the Ethnologue 
> designation for Plains Indian Sign Language).  Just as Canada has more 
> than one sign language, so does the US, ASL is Deaf-related, PSD is 
> intertribal-related.  I don't know if PSD is used in intertribal 
> convocations all over North America or not.
>  
> How about SGN-CA-ASL, SGN-CA-LSQ, SGN-US-ASL, SGN-US-PSD.
>  
> Charles
>
>
> Valerie Sutton <sutton at signwriting.org> wrote:
> SignWriting List
> September 28, 2004
>
> Wonderful to have support from a member of the Deaf Community. Thank
>  you, Stuart!!
>
> Val ;-)
>
> ---------------------
>
>
> On Sep 28, 2004, at 10:19 AM, Stuart Thiessen wrote:
>
> > I like what Valerie has already worked on. The advantage is that we
>  > can see language and country relationships. With SGN-ASL, we don't
>  > have any information as to if we are talking about American Sign
>  > Language, Argentine Sign Language, Austrian Sign Language, or
>  > Aboriginal Sign Language :-). It is also less easy to see what
>  > variants are common within that country.
> >
> > By doing SGN-US, we have a neutral designation for American Sign
>  > Language as it is generally signed in the US. The purpose of
>  > suggesting SGN-US-CA is to identify a variant of American Sign > 
> Language as it is generally signed in Canada. A third designation can
>  > be helpful if we need to identify dialects or other variants as
>  > needed.
> >
> > SGN-EO wouldn't make sense anyway because that *is* confusing country
>  > codes and language codes.
> >
> > SGN is the language code
> >
> > US is the country code
> >
> > The issue is the use of a third following designation .... should it
> > be a language code or a country code or some other code?
> >
> > If it was a language code, then we are assuming that the sign 
> language
>  > generally is associated with the speakers of that spoken language. 
> In
>  > this example, SGN-CA-EN would then represent ASL as signed in
> > English-speaking Canada as opposed to SGN-CA-FR which would then
>  > represent LSQ as signed in French-speaking Canada.
> >
> > If it was a country code, then we are associating the language with a
> > variant us! ed in that other country. In this example, SGN-US-CA 
> would
>  > represent ASL as signed in Canada where SGN-CA would represent LSQ 
> as
>  > signed in Canada since LSQ is unique to Canada.
> >
> > If it was some other code, then we could focus on the variants. Based
>  > on what I have read so far, I am not seeing that ISO is interested 
> in
> > drilling down to that level, but if we wish to use the ISO standards
>  > to help us identify that level for web pages, dictionary databases,
>  > etc., then we will have to figure something out.
> >
> > But I am not as keen on seeing SGN-ASL ... I think we lose valuable
>  > information that is already encoded in the current standard.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Stuart
> >
> > Signuno wrote:
> >
> >> SGN-US-CA won't work because you shouldn't mix
> >> language codes with country codes (all these are case
> >> INsensitive). Also, SGN-EO could be a problem for
> >> this same reason.
> >>
> >> Why not deprecate all SGN-twoletter codes and invent
> >> and register new SGN-threeormoreletter codes such as:
> >>
> >> SGN-ASL
> >> SGN-LSQ
> >> SGN-BSL
> >> etc
> >>
> >> Or is it too late for that?
> >>
> >> regards,
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
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> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
>
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