[sw-l] non-deaf people and mouthing
Shane Gilchrist Ó hEorpa
shane.gilchrist.oheorpa at FRANCISMAGINN.ORG
Fri Feb 25 22:10:32 UTC 2005
Well, I speak for Northern Ireland.
If the 2 deaf fluent signers are to include a non-deaf signer in the convo,
it DEPENDS on how good the non-deaf signer's language is. And it depends on
what subject we ll talk about really.
If it's something general or political (which we Irish love), we ll still
continue - but if we talk something new to him/her, we ll go slow for
It's just a language really - and we expect learners to follow us - the only
time I go slow with my NISL is when I have a very long session with a terp
OR when I teach sign language.
Outside the classroom, I ll go fast ;-) - and if they dont get it, I ll
Although older deaf people (who are from the generation where a very few
non-deaf people are fluent in NISL) tend to slow down anyway for the
"tomatoes" - the term for deaf people who grew up in mainstream schools so
they apply the same approach to "talkers" as they call non-deaf people in
NISL ;) - such a simple approach to languages! :D
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-sw-l at majordomo.valenciacc.edu [mailto:owner-sw-
> l at majordomo.valenciacc.edu] On Behalf Of Valerie Sutton
> Sent: 25 February 2005 21:48
> To: sw-l at majordomo.valenciacc.edu
> Subject: Re: [sw-l] non-deaf people and mouthing
> SignWriting List
> February 25, 2005
> On Feb 25, 2005, at 1:15 PM, Shane Gilchrist Ó hEorpa wrote:
> > I believe non-deaf signers CAN mouth in ASL/NISL/BSL/VGT/DGS/PJM as
> > good if
> > not better as deaf fluent signers :-)
> Yes, Shane, but I think you are missing the point...Of course people
> from other cultures, such as non-Deaf and Deaf cultures, can learn each
> other's languages, and some can do it so well, that they sign like
> natives or speak like natives...
> But my point is that here in the US, a native ASL signer does NOT mouth
> in English with other native signing people...mouthing in English
> versus mouthing that is associated with ASL grammar are two very
> different things here...and it was my understanding from my Deaf
> friends, that if people mouth in English while they try to sign
> ASL...that you can't because that is not real ASL...it is something
> inbetween English and ASL...and there is nothing wrong with that...but
> it is not pure ASL...you can't mix the two...and ASL definitely can
> stand alone without mouthing specific English words...the mouth
> movements are different in true ASL grammar...Stuart is Deaf from the
> US and just explained the same thing...
> Meanwhile, Stuart and I are wondering if it is different in Europe?
> When two fluent signing Deaf people in BSL sign to each other, without
> any non-deaf people in the room...do they mouth every single word in
> English while they are signing in BSL grammar? Have you ever videotaped
> the differences when a non-deaf person suddenly enters the room? How do
> the native Deaf signers change their language to accomodate the
> non-deaf person?
> We have done that study here, and there is a difference like night and
> Val ;-)
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