[sw-l] Use of symbols in Sign Bank

[Steve Slevinski]

Hi Charles,

I'm having trouble following the SSS ID numbers you are using.

I believe you should be using 01-05-018-01 rather than 01-005-18.
Category and Group both use 2 numbers.  The Symbol position uses 3
numbers.  I've included the Variaiton position for clarity.

If we want to include the "Shaddai" handshape in group 01-05, we can add
it at the end of the group or as a variation of an existing symbol.
Since you've already identified symbol 01-05-018-01 as the prime symbol,
adding the new symbol as a variation is straight forward.  The new
symbol would have the SSS ID number of 01-05-018-02.  Very easy and
sorting still makes sense.

The SSS ID numbers of the IMWA do not need to change for new symbols.
Renumbering is a bad word.

About symbols 01-01-007-01 and 01-01-008-01...  This is a complex topic
that only affects a very few handshapes.  In SignWriting, we learn that
there are 6 palm facings, 3 on the horizontal plane and 3 on the
verticle plane.  But this is not true.  There are actually 10 palm
facings. (because of diagonals).  Using 6 palm facings is a
simplification that makes SignWriting easier to use.  Symbols
01-01-007-01 and 01-01-008-01 do share 2 palm facings, but each has 4
distinct and original palm facings each.  Look at the detailed fills and
rotations for these symbols and notice the bend of the fingers.

-Steve





Charles Butler wrote:

> 01-005-18, Flat Split Center
>
> This seems to be the "Live long and prosper" or "Shaddai" sign from
> old Hebrew sign language without the thumb.  Where would I find this
> sign with the thumb out?  This would be shape 51 in the -005 series
> unless it were to be put in as a variant of 005-18.  There is a
> genetic marker, oddly enough, as to which humans can do this handshape
> with ease, just like rolling one's tongue.
>
> This brings up a point.  If we have a set "order" for the SSS, what
> happens when a new handshape, by logic, really ought to be put
> "between" two other signs that are already in the system, like the
> "Shaddai" sign?  If the SSS is to be logical, we'd need to renumber
> the signs constantly any time a new handshape is found that fits
> between two handshapes already in the catalogue, like this particular
> handshape, the 01-005-18a, rather than as 01-005-51, which shows order
> of discovery, not logical placement.
>
> */Charles Butler <chazzer3332000 at YAHOO.COM>/* wrote:
>
>     I am confused.  I'm looking at the SignBank symbol list and don't
>     understand these differences:
>
>     01-001-007, Index Bent, version 1
>     01-001-008, Index Bent, version 2
>
>     Can I get a minimal pair here to show the difference between the
>     two symbols, they look identical on the screen.  If I am choosing
>     one or the other to create a sign, which do I use?
>
>     01-002-10, Index Middle Cross
>     01-002-12, Index Bent over Middle
>
>     Is 12 used frequently?  I found 01-002-12 being used in the sign
>     for "ready" in the ASL SignPuddle, which is usually using an "R"
>     handshape in ASL with middle over the index rather than index over
>     the middle.  Do we have a source or videotape to back up the usage
>     of 01-002-12 instead?
>
>     01-005-18, Flat Split Center
>
>     This seems to be the "Live long and prosper" or "Shaddai" sign
>     from old Hebrew sign language without the thumb.  Where would I
>     find this sign with the thumb out?  This would be shape 51 in the
>     -005 series unless it were to be put in as a variant of 005-18.
>     There is a genetic marker, oddly enough, as to which humans can do
>     this handshape with ease, just like rolling one's tongue.
>
>     01-005-36 Curlicue
>     01-10-04 Thumb Out.
>     01-10-11 Fist
>
>     Is this a matter of degree for the thumb "out".  The curlicue
>     looks like a hyperextended thumb but if one simply moves from the
>     position of "thumb to side" ASL-A, to "fist" (ASL-S), to 01-10-04
>     "thumb to front" to 01-005-36, I'm not sure I'm understanding the
>     critical differences.
>
>     Inquring minds want to know.
>
>     Charles Butler
>
>