[sw-l] SW system type... alphabetic vs. others ( pictographic, ideographic, logographic)

[Charles Butler]

Hello all,

I think "alphabetic" is a good word to mean: an
ordered system of symbols, icons, or other
transcription to record utterance of meaning.  The
emphasis is on "order" and "system" not simply
writing.  Chinese characters are not an alphabet,
Korean is.  SW because of the Sign-Symbol-Sequence
follows a logical system  of handshapes as its first
grouping, which are in an order of which fingers are
used and how they are articulated.

An alphabet (from Greek alpha-beta, the first two
letters of the Greek alphabet).  This includes both
oral languages (Roman, Greek, Arabic, Cherokee), and
signed languages (ASL, Libras, ballet).  IMWA, if it
were following that style would be named "1-2" but it
gets its title from an English word to describe a
transcription system.

Note that I consider ballet a language, as it is an
ordered system of mimes telling a story.


--- Marc Girod & Anne-Claude Prélaz Girod
<girodmarc at VTX.CH> wrote:

> Hello Tomas
>
> I don't know if you've read the work of Joe Martin
> who writes on the
> different notation system that do exist for sign
> languages... and compares
> them (Stockoes...) with SW
> (you can find his article on the web on:
> www.signwriting.org/forums/linguistics/ling008.html
>
> one of the interesting things he says is the this
> system is very iconic...
> because what's seen on the paper do look a lot like
> the sign... (this fact
> makes it realaly easy to read a document written in
> SW.... which is not the
> cas with a document written with Stokoe's notation)
>
> As Valerie said in a previous mail, this system is
> not a drawing system but
> a writing system... in oral languages... we talk
> about alphabetic system...
> I don'tknow what name we should use for sign
> languages.... but what is sure,
> exactly as you explain in your mail, is that
> SignWriting writes down the
> symbols which are called "chereme" (units of the
> second articulation of sign
> languages, equivalent of phonemes in the oral
> languages)
> and putting together the different symbols (the
> different cheremes)... you
> get a sign with a meaning... these units are, in
> linguistics called,
> "kinemes" (equivalent of monemes in the oral
> languages) and are the units of
> the first articulation of sign languages... that's
> quite hard to explain in
> a mail... but hopefully you'll understand what I
> mean!
>
> in short.... I completely agree with you... but I'm
> not sure about the word
> "alphabetic".... maybe it's not the way to call this
> writing system...
>
> Anny
>
>
>
>
>
> > De : "Tomás Klapka" <Tomas.Klapka at ruce.cz>
> > Répondre à : sw-l at majordomo.valenciacc.edu
> > Date : Tue, 21 Jun 2005 13:30:47 +0200
> > À : sw-l at majordomo.valenciacc.edu
> > Objet : [sw-l] SW system type... alphabetic vs.
> others (pictographic,
> > ideographic, logographic)
> >
> > Hi, I have a question about type of SW writing
> system.
> >
> > People always tell me that it is pictographic,
> ideographic or ...
> >
> > I think it is alphabetic, because there is no
> pictogram, logogram,
> > ideogram for a morpheme.
>
> > Each morpheme (I mean sign in SW) is compounded of
> phonetic (cheretic)
> > symbols standardized in IMWA (and IMWA is just the
> alphabet). Those
> > symbols don't have meanings. So do phonems.
> >
> > /
> > Sometimes there is more phonems in a symbol, but
> it still has no meaning.
> > It is simillar as for example in czech letter 'á'
> (latin letter a with
> > Acute) which represents long vowel 'a'.
> > So there is the sound quality (written as latin
> letter A) and sound
> > duration (writen by Acute) - two phonems in a
> letter.
> > But the letter has no meaning itself. It makes the
> meaning if it is
> > component of a morpheme:
> >
> > czech word "ráda" - is glad, (feminine, verb)
> > czech word "rada" - advice, convocation, council,
> counsellor, tip (noun)
> > /
> >
> > So it must be alphabetic.
> > Is it right?
> >
> > Tomas
> >
>
>
>
>