RES: [sw-l] Doubt about Sign

[Valerie Sutton]

SignWriting List
March 2, 2005

Dear SW List, Sergio, Stefan, Ingvild and so many wonderful people!! ;-)
We are moving our web sites and email today to a new server, and it has 
been an interesting process!! Soon, it will be easier for me to 
concentrate...

Now, Sergio, I understand your question and it has been hard for me to 
teach it properly over the years...But I will start trying to 
re-explain it the best I can...

I have been relaxed about the issue, because people are able to read 
these hands whether the fingers are up or down...just as long as the 
palm of the hand is white (or not filled-in)...The white palm tells us 
that the hand is toward the chest, so it could be nothing else...

But here are the detailed rules below, and in time I want to include 
this education in our textbooks so the question will no longer haunt 
us....smile...;-)

1. Imagine you are standing behind a person, and that person is 
signing, and you are copying the way that person is signing...That is 
the Expressive viewpoint...You are becoming the signer in front of 
you...

2. The piece of paper we write on...or your computer screen...is flat, 
and we need to write the 3rd dimension on this flat area. In the 
Expressive View, the top of the paper is the front wall, and the bottom 
of the paper is the back wall, or your chest...

3. The rule is that in the Expressive view, when fingers or arrows are 
pointing forward, it is really UP on the piece of paper...because the 
top of your paper is the front wall you are facing...This means that 
forward is up and back is down, on your paper...in the Expressive. When 
you are looking overhead, down on your own hands, I think this is 
easier to understand...

4. So....If the fingers are projecting forward, away from your 
chest...they are up on the page, and if the fingers are projecting 
back, toward your chest, they are down on the page...

5. But guess what?! Lots of our documents don't follow those rules! 
Because if the palm is white, what else could it be, but facing your 
chest?...so even if you placed the fingers up instead of down, it still 
couldn't be read any other way, but the hand facing the chest...so the 
rules are good if you want to be consistent, but meanwhile either way 
you write the fingers, the handshape can still be read properly...the 
white palm is the reason...

So in the next message I will send you a diagram that should help 
visually...

And last, Sergio be at peace and keep writing and enjoying it, and in 
time we will standardize these rules with great illustrations so that 
no one is confused again!!

So look for my next message in about 4 hours or so, after I finish some 
other work...

Thanks for your questions...I love hearing from all of you!!

Val ;-)

------------------------------

Sergio Ribeiro wrote:
> My doubt is like this ? I finded it in Lessons on line of signwriting 
> web site.
>  
>
> QUESTION 0038:
>
<image.tiff>
>
>
>
>
> ANSWER 0038 continued...
>
> The Claw and Cupped Handshapes are not "visually perfect" when the 
> fingers touch the chest. They either look like they are dipping down 
> or up...that can't be avoided...but they are read correctly if you
> know the rules ;-)
>
> The symbol has a "white palm", which means the palm is facing the 
> chest. So when reading these positions, you first place your palm 
> facing the chest, and then you know it is contacting the chest
> because of the contact star, plus the addition of the Shoulder Line 
> can help, although it is not mandatory....
>
> So you can dip the fingers down or up..and just as long as the palm is 
> white, it is written correctly...
>
>  
>
> ....SO... Can I write like below ? Or NOT ?
>  
<image.tiff>
> cupped right hand touch brushing chin moving knuckling to down.
>
>  
>  
>  
>
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