[sw-l] Re: SW in Latin American & Spain

[Valerie Sutton]

OK, Stuart...that is fine!

All this will happen sooner or later ;-)

Val ;-)

PS. I tried SignWriter Tiger today and it seems promising to be able
to use directly on the Mac...;-)

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On May 23, 2005, at 1:54 PM, Stuart Thiessen wrote:

> The translate feature may be nice, but I think a better approach
> (which I am sure that Steve has on his list) is to find a way to
> load signs from the dictionary into SignText so that it can be
> modified for any facial expressions or changes in movement to match
> the grammar of the writing before including in the document.  We
> will increase our credibility to the community if we can show how
> the grammatical and linguistic elements of the language are
> preserved in the way we write. Of course, I still go back to
> wondering if there is any way to allow the typing features of
> SignWriter for SignText.  Maybe that requires a java applet, but
> the ability to load signs from the dictionary and/or typing in the
> sign without having to drag/drop are valuable features to make
> SignText even more versatile.  I am not complaining. Steve has done
> a lot of good work. I am just looking at my own workflow and
> noticing what would make me more efficient in how I produce SW
> documents.  Also, as long as Steve has a way that we can convert
> his XML documents into well-formed HTML, we shouldn't need to post
> things as one big graphic (which is harder to edit when you need
> to.) Just my 2 cents worth.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Stuart
>
> On May 23, 2005, at 15:39, Valerie Sutton wrote:
>
>
>> SignWriting List
>> May 23, 2005
>>
>> Steve-
>> Thanks for this message below...A little frustrating, isn't it? smile
>>
>> James has volumes of SignWriting, and has taught Deaf children in
>> Nicaragua in SignWriting and Sign Language since 1995, with
>> documented success. So James has worked an entire decade and has
>> lots to show for it. He has dedicated his life to the Deaf
>> children he teaches. But an administrator can, with the touch of
>> his or her pen to a piece of paper, wipe away decades of work,
>> without understanding what he or she is doing...
>>
>> But on the positive side to this scenario, the SignWriting
>> literature which James typed in SignWriter DOS, still exists, and
>> administrators can change their minds if we can show them his work.
>>
>> James is skilled with SignWriter DOS, and he also is using a
>> Macintosh for other projects. On James' Mac, he has entered all
>> the 876 signs into the Nicaraguan SignPuddle...
>>
>> Nicaraguan SignPuddle
>> http://www.SignBank.org/signpuddle/sgn-NI
>>
>> Great job, James!
>>
>> Now James needs to get his SignWriter DOS documents into the world
>> of the web...I know you are working on SignText, Steve...How soon
>> could we start to try to create a document with SignText?...
>>
>> Or...we could open a Microsoft Word document and drag and drop
>> sign by sign from SignPuddle to Word....Would that make more sense
>> right now?
>>
>> We need a way to get documents posted on the web quickly...Another
>> idea I had last night...Could we use the Translate Tool on
>> SignPuddle, create the sentences we need, and then can you build
>> in an export feature just in the Translate Tool that would create
>> the sentences as one great big PNG file, for posting on the web?
>> So the vertical columns would be captured in a graphic that can
>> then be posted easily?...
>>
>> One more thing on your long to-do list....I realize this may not
>> be possible and that is ok...smile
>>
>> Val ;-)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On May 23, 2005, at 3:20 PM, Steve Slevinski wrote:
>>
>>
>>> James Shepard-Kegl,
>>>
>>> It seems to me... (as a hearing man raised with English as my
>>> first langauge)
>>>
>>> Administrators have a problem of ignorance and misunderstanding.
>>> I think talking about SignWriting only makes the problem worse.
>>> To me, SignWriting is like grammar. It has rules and lessons.  It
>>> is made up of best practices.  It can be boring to talk about
>>> unless you're directly involved.
>>> Sign langauge can be written,  just as any other langauge.
>>> However, sign langauges use a movement alphabet, rather than a
>>> phonetic alphabet, because sign langauge moves.
>>>
>>> Only ignorance and misunderstanding makes it possible for someone
>>> to say that using SignWriting violates standard teaching
>>> procedures.  You use written langauge with SignWriting.  Written
>>> langauge is the basis of any modern education.  An education
>>> system that rejects reading and writing would violate standard
>>> teaching procedures.
>>> Helping people understand the importance of sign language is the
>>> real problem.  But before we can discuss sign langauge, we have
>>> to get to the heart of the matter.  Langauge is the true
>>> foundation of a modern education.
>>>
>>> The earlier children are exposed to langauge, the better.
>>> Children absorb and create langauge naturally.  Humans are
>>> linguistic creatures.
>>> While Oralists admit that early exposure to langauge is
>>> important, I am not sure if they accept sign langauges as true
>>> languages.
>>> Oralists choose to ignore that the children's attitude and
>>> experiences are important.  A child's involvement, interest and
>>> enjoyment in education makes all of the difference in their
>>> development as human beings.
>>> Deaf history is filled with stories of children who were robbed
>>> of their childhoods because they were mainstreamed.  Their early
>>> years were filled with confusion because they were forced to use
>>> a language they could not fully experience.  Their time was
>>> consumed with constant drills so that they could lip-read and voice.
>>> A basic education is no different for a hearing child or a deaf
>>> child:
>>> 1) Early exposure to language
>>> 2) A love of learning
>>> 3) The ability to read and write their primary language
>>>
>>> Once a child has been equiped with these 3 steps of a basic
>>> education, there is no stopping the child from becoming a
>>> successful individual.  Oralism fails starting with step 1.
>>> Oralism continues to fail with step 2.
>>>
>>> -Steve
>>>
>>>
>>> James Shepard-Kegl, Esq. wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> To educators using SW in Spanish speaking countries:
>>>>
>>>> As I guess all of your are aware, we use SW a very great deal in
>>>> Bluefields,
>>>> Nicaragua, and we have developed a good deal of reading
>>>> material:  three
>>>> volumes of reading lessons in SW, applied math workbooks in SW,
>>>> Spanish
>>>> texts and workbooks incorporating SW.
>>>>
>>>> Our Deaf teachers and students, of course, appreciate the value
>>>> of SW in a
>>>> teaching curriculum.  Why?  because for them there are practical
>>>> applications on a daily basis.
>>>>
>>>> However, for government administrators in the Ministry of
>>>> Education, SW is
>>>> much more of an abstract.  Yes, if they had to think about it,
>>>> the concept
>>>> would seem like a good idea.  However, use of SW in a teaching
>>>> curriculum is
>>>> not a traditional approach in Deaf education.  Everyone knows
>>>> that I espouse
>>>> it, but what do I say when some foreign consultant comes in and
>>>> says, "This
>>>> is not accepted practice anywhere else.  Using SW violates
>>>> standard teaching
>>>> procedures."
>>>>
>>>> So, immediately we have the battle of the foreign consultants.
>>>> This is in
>>>> part what occurred in Condega, Nicaragua.  And the Columbian
>>>> oralist had an
>>>> advantage in this debate:  He is a Latin American and he speaks
>>>> Spanish.
>>>>
>>>> At some point (possibly June), I am planning to hold a teaching
>>>> seminar for
>>>> the hearing staff at the Bluefields Deaf School.  This program
>>>> would be not
>>>> merely for government teachers, but also for the supervisors the
>>>> government
>>>> sends to the school from time to time.  These individuals are not
>>>> particularly well trained, if at all, in new approaches to Deaf
>>>> education --
>>>> which makes them very vulnerable to oralism or so-called "total
>>>> communication" advocates.
>>>>
>>>> I can say that SW is being used at varying levels (pilot programs,
>>>> developing curricula, etc.) in other Spanish speaking
>>>> countries.  But, it
>>>> would be much better if a description of the varying programs
>>>> came from the
>>>> sources -- and written in Spanish.  I would be happy to share
>>>> your one - two
>>>> page reports with our own staff and with the participants in
>>>> this teaching
>>>> seminar.
>>>>
>>>> Please address any documents to:  El proyecto de idioma de senas de
>>>> Nicaragua
>>>> at kegl at maine.rr.com
>>>>
>>>> Thank you for your help.
>>>>
>>>> -- James Shepard-Kegl
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
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