[sw-l] SignPuddle 2.0 beta

Sat May 28 17:29:44 UTC 2005

SignWriting List
May 28, 2005

Bill and Steve -
There are lots of inconsistencies in the IMWA...partly because I have
not entered all of the symbols yet (smile) and partly because of
exceptional cases that create problems for consistency...The purpose
of the IMWA was to store all of the symbols in a big closet or
database, and I had not actually planned on using it as a
symbolset...I had originally planned, before I met Steve, that from
the IMWA, we would create smaller symbolsets that would be used for
actual document creation...after I had completed adding every
variation that exists all over the world...

But that idea was not practical, because people need those symbols
immediately, and waiting for me to add all of them was not good for
the writing system...

So Steve has given us a great gift...he has given us use of the IMWA
as it progresses...giving me the freedom to add new symbols, while
users use what has already been added...

I add symbols and presto! we can use them immediately...Before, when
I added symbols into the old SignWriter DOS symbol editor, it took us
time to complete the rest of the program to use those symbols and so
we never had instantaneous use of symbols as we do now, with Steve's
SignPuddle...What Steve has done is to make the IMWA a truly usable
symbolset in its own right, rather than just a big storage database...

But this also means that people are using symbols that have some
inconsistencies...

If we wish to go back later and solve the inconsistencies...we
could...and that might be good for the writing system...but it means
that some of the signs would have to be re-entered because the symbol
ID numbers would change and that is such a huge job that I promised
Steve that I would not change old ID numbers...to keep us sane!

The truth is that we have to choose which inconsistencies are worse
than others. For example, did you know that some handshapes use 10
palm facings? Technically all handshapes could have 10, but 99 per
cent of them only use 6 palm facings...so to keep the IMWA smaller, I
chose to only have 6 palm facings for all handshapes...but now we
know of three cases where we have to have the 10...I decided to add
those exceptions in a different way...but that is an inconsistency,
no question...but the inconsistency is based on the human body and
how it looks in special cases. Now in hindsight, I might have made
those special cases Variations, but to do that, we would have to
change the ID numbers...since they are rarely used anyway, we only
know of a few signs that are using the rare cases right now anyway,
so you could argue that the ID change would not hurt much...but I
would need to test the variations idea to see if that created any
other headaches etc etc...smile...

You can see, Bill, what it is happening behind the scenes with the IMWA!

I plan to try to add all the movement symbol and facial expression
detailed symbols in the month of June...like the double loop movement
symbol I mentioned in a previous email, and the facial expressions
that Stefan uses in his Mundbildschrift, and more detailed arm bends,
which Steve Parkhurst requested in Spain...So my July the IMWA should
be more complete...

Val ;-)

On May 28, 2005, at 9:21 AM, Bill Reese wrote:

> NP, Steve.   The fills, variations and rotations work wonderful.
> They are much more advanced that version 1.0.  There is something
> else that makes me wonder though.   Some of the curved arrow
> symbols are able to be mirrored on the horizontal and some not.
> While there may be a logical explanation for it, it seems a bit
> inconsistent.
>
> Bil
>
> Steve Slevinski wrote:
>
>
>> Hi Bill,
>>
>> Thanks for finding a defect with SignMaker.  I thought I'd found
>> all of them.
>>
>> I was able to reproduce the problem.  And I know what is happening.
>>
>> I was assuming that symbol variations would have the same fills
>> and rotations.  But you found an example that does not.  The
>> symbols in question are 02-08-001-01 and 02-08-001-02.
>> Thanks again,
>> -Steve
>>
>> Bill Reese wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Very smooth, Steve!
>>>
>>> I found a symbol that doesn't seem to be working right.   Select
>>> the 8th symbol down in the second row.   Choose "variation" once,
>>> then "mirror".  What I get is "2".
>>>
>>> Bill
>>>
>>>
>>> Steve Slevinski wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hello list,
>>>>
>>>> I am so excited!  I have just completed the SignPuddle 2.0
>>>> beta.  There are many improvements. http://www.signpuddle.org/
>>>> dictionary/community
>>>>
>>>> But don't worry, it looks like SignPuddle 1.0, but feels better.
>>>>
>>>> On each screen, there is a Help button located on the top-
>>>> right.  This opens a context sensitive help screen.  The screens
>>>> are mostly bare, but I'm working on it.
>>>>
>>>> The biggest difference is the addition of spelling.  Every sign
>>>> added to a SignPuddle 2.0 dictionary must have a sign spelling.
>>>> Sign spellings are used for sorting according to sign symbol
>>>> sequence.  In SignPuddle 2.0, when signs are displayed in search
>>>> results, the signs are sorted properly.  It's a thing of
>>>> beauty.  This will make it possible to create PDF sign sorted
>>>> dictionaries on the fly.
>>>> Read all about sign spellings thanks to Val:
>>>> http://www.signwriting.org/archive/docs2/sw0145-
>>>> SignSpelling-2004.pdf
>>>>
>>>> I have blank dictionary if you want to try it out.
>>>> http://www.signpuddle.org/dictionary/community
>>>>
>>>> After a short break to assess where I am, I will be creating a
>>>> test plan and importing the signs from the ASL SignPuddle 1.0
>>>> dictionary.
>>>>
>>>> Any feedback or reaction would be appreciated.
>>>>
>>>> -Steve
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
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