AW: [sw-l] Writing mouthing of words with SSW

[Stefan Wöhrmann]

Hello Valerie, Adam ... sw-list members

- thank you very much for your comments! 

Just to avoid any misunderstanding - of course we know in addition to what I
call voiceless articulation lots and lots of other mouth gestures, ...
Of course we use classifiers as well ...and what you describe about ASL - 

The problem with this issue of voiceless articulation is that somehow people
dislike to accept that it is to be seen  here and there. And I get the
feeling that it is not wanted! Just as if signing without implementation of
any words of the hearing society is somehow "better signing". 

I personally do not care but I observe (or at least try to ) as open minded
as possible any SL performance and if there is something like this
"mouthing" well I think it should be a part of the transcription. 

On the other hand - you can bet that it depends on the dialog partner! And
even my transcription depends on the reader. Higher competence in both
language systems will lead to less Mundbilder.

Bye for now

Stefan ;-)) 

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: owner-sw-l at majordomo.valenciacc.edu
[mailto:owner-sw-l at majordomo.valenciacc.edu] Im Auftrag von Valerie Sutton
Gesendet: Sonntag, 26. Februar 2006 19:07
An: sw-l at majordomo.valenciacc.edu
Betreff: Re: [sw-l] Writing mouthing of words with SSW

SignWriting List
February 26, 2006

Hello Adam and Stefan!

Adam Frost in California wrote:

> Val,
> You explained it beautifully. And those two ways that you showed  
> are call sandwiching (sign with fingerspelling) and expansion  
> technices of ASL. The latter is used among Deaf to Deaf  
> conversation more often than the first since English is not  
> considered very important to ASL. Sandwiching is used when the  
> English word is important (like for education if Deaf to Deaf).

Thank you, Adam! I did not know the term sandwiching...that is a new  
term for me...thanks for informing us of this!


> My expansion might be a little more, depending on the Deaf and how  
> much the idea is important. For example, I might go into the idea  
> that a ship is large and metal and usually used by the navy, and a  
> boat is smaller and usually made of wood. Or it might be bar none  
> to where I just sign BOAT for both if it isn't at all important.

Yes...exactly...it is this part of ASL that is sooo hard for those  
who are new to the language, but it is also the wonderful visual  
nature of these descriptions that make ASL such a beautiful and rich  
language...oftentimes there is no English translation possible that  
can match the visual accuracy of these classifiers...so there is  
nothing to mouth...


> However, what would be more important is this example "The ship is  
> blue. The boat is white." in ASL would be the comparision. Ship (or  
> BOAT as it might just be signed) would be placed on one side,  
> discribed as blue (and anything else needed) and boat would be  
> placed on the other side of the signer and discribed as white.

Yes. In SignWriting, we call these Lanes. The sign to the right, is  
placed in the Right Lane, and the sign to the left, is placed in the  
Left Lane. You can write sentences with Lanes in SignText:

SignText
http://www.SignBank.org/signpuddle/index.html#SignTextEditor




> Sefan, there is a time where there is mouthing, but that is with  
> transliteration (a branch off of Interpreting) which is English to  
> Conceptually Acurreate Signed English (CASE). This is where it  
> would be signed BOAT BLUE. BOAT WHITE. while mouthing The ship is  
> blue. The boat is white. This would be the perfect time to write  
> the mouthing if this was to be written. But this is not ASL, this  
> is a form of interpreting. So even though ASL does not use mouthing  
> as far as representing the English words, I am glad that the IWMA  
> has a way for it so that if someone needs to they can.

Yes. Well said!

People who sign using American signs, are not necessarily signing in  
the grammar of American Sign Language...In the US we have many terms  
we use to explain a variety of grammar choices, using American  
signs...For example:

ASL...Deaf to Deaf grammar
PSE...(Pidgin-Sign-English)...is most likely what I sign...some  
English grammar blended with some ASL grammar (even though I am  
trying for ASL grammar ;-)
CASE...described above
signing ASL signs in English word order used to be called Signing  
Exact English but I am not sure that is the right name any longer...

Thanks to you both for an interesting discussion!

Val ;-)