sw-l-digest V1 #1696

[Vanessa Hodge]

Hello, I have a question about a symbol in SW.  The symbol is
"middle-joint closes" or the black dot.  I have been writing or
attempting to write several signs that use this movement.  Sometimes
the "middle joint closes" movement is performed once and sometimes it
is repeated.  However, some of the signs use one finger and others use
two or three (that are all doing the same "middle joint closes"
movement) and also possibly another movement (an arrow movement) as
well.  My first question is, does the "middle-joint closes" symbol
show how many times the movement is performed or does it show which
fingers are doing the movement?  Also, when signs have regular
movement plus this internal movement does this "middle-joint closes"
symbol need to be placed near the finger that moves or can it be
placed near the location where the actual "middle joint closes" takes
place?  For example, if the finger was only bending when it was
farther away from your body, could you put the dot near that location
on the arrow.  Lastly, if there is already an arrow showing that the
whole movement occurs twice/repeated, do you need to place two dots to
show that two closings take place or is that understood because of the
already present movement arrows?
Thank you very much!  I look forward to your comments,  Vanessa


On 6/16/06, owner-sw-l-digest at majordomo.valenciacc.edu
<owner-sw-l-digest at majordomo.valenciacc.edu> wrote:
>
> sw-l-digest           Friday, June 16 2006           Volume 01 : Number 1696
>
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 15:16:30 -0300
> From: "Sergio" <ssr.informatica at bol.com.br>
> Subject: [sw-l] Hellen Keller sign name
>
> Hello,
>
> Do anybody know Hellen Keller sign name ? And how writing it using SW ?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Sergio Ribeiro
> São Paulo - SP
> Prof. SignWriting
> Centro Educacional Cultura Surda
> www.culturasurda.com.br
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 23:45:33 +0200
> From: Juliette Dalle <july.tigre at free.fr>
> Subject: Re: [sw-l] BELGIUM (FRENCH) : News
>
> Hm..
>
> In our classes, we don't teach so early. We give the SW lesson to 5
> years old minimum. As the writting language, we don't teach or make
> read the children any text (SW or writting language) before teh age of
> 5. In my opinion, it is too early for teaching SW to kids of 3-4 years
> old !
>
> Take care
>
> Juliette
>
> Le jeudi, 15 juin 2006, à 16:23 Europe/Paris, Shane Gilchrist O hEorpa
> a écrit :
>
> > Thierry,
> >
> > that is really amazing, Thierry and I am very delighted for you!
> >
> > news from our side in Belfast.
> >
> > We had our first Education Subcommittee yesterday and we have started
> > to plan the Playgroup - we were discussing how SW can be introduced -
> > we don't know if SW can be taught to younger kids say aged 3?
> >
> > Which age shall SW be introduced to kids then?
> >
> > Shane
> >
> > On 15/06/06, Deaf Action Committee for SW <dac at signwriting.org> wrote:
> >> SignWriting List
> >> June 14, 2006
> >>
> >> Hello Thierry and everyone in French- Belgium!
> >> I got so much email today, that I just now noticed this great report
> >> from Belgium! Thank you, Thierry, for reporting to us. And, as
> >> members of our SignWriting Literacy Project, I plan to send you some
> >> materials, plus create a web page about your schools and
> >> students...so there is much ahead...I got behind and I am sorry about
> >> that...I guess the new school year will be the time for me to send
> >> you our materials...
> >>
> >> It is late at night here, while you are just waking and starting your
> >> day...you are in the next day....which will be my tomorrow....while I
> >> am in your "last night"... kind of poetic ;-)
> >>
> >> It is hard to believe that while it is light where you are, it is
> >> dark where I am...we are on the other side of the world from each
> >> other....and yet the internet brings us together!
> >>
> >> So close and yet so far, as they say!
> >>
> >> I plan to study your message below in detail and answer tomorrow,
> >> California time...Thanks so much for this report!
> >>
> >> Val ;-)
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> > Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 23:05:25 +0200 (CEST)
> >> > From: "Thierry Haesenne" <thierry.haesenne at ilmh.be>
> >> > Subject: [sw-l] BELGIUM (FRENCH) : News
> >> >
> >> > Hello Val,
> >> > Hope you are going well... I have been very busy lately but I
> >> > wanted to give you a few
> >> > news from French-speaking Belgium :
> >> > Damien and I trained four people on SW today. Three of them are
> >> > Sign Language teachers. They were all amazed by the possibilities
> >> > of SW and will spread the word around.
> >> > They asked us to train them again in October.
> >> > We plan to introduce SW to LSFB interpreters when the
> >> > new interpreter training will be launched- (probably in 2007).
> >> > Our website www.lsfb.be now contains 202 signs with SW. There are
> >> > several hundreds more
> >> > signs waiting to be inserted, but it takes a lot of time. We need
> >> > to correct all the signs in the Sign
> >> > Puddle (some people have been adding wrong signs, and I have not
> >> > had the time to change them) We will add
> >> > many more signs to our website before September. Please feel free
> >> > to correct any spellings that seem odd to
> >> > you by sending me a message. You can check them by watching the
> >> > videos and comparing them with the SW
> >> > spellings. We still want to learn!
> >> > The training at the Deaf school of Ghlin is almost over. I still
> >> > need three more mornings and then the deaf teachers will be able to
> >> > use SW in class. The SW will officially
> >> > be used from September in that school. In Liege, Cecile is still
> >> > using SW with her deaf students.
> >> > A
> >> > couple of hearing students have written their BA thesis on SW. One
> >> > of them designed materials (especially
> >> > games) to be used in class with deaf kids. I forgot to ask Cecile
> >> > to send you a copy because I found it
> >> > really amazing (lots of colour pictures with clear explanations).
> >> > Cecile told me she has still not received
> >> > anything from you about the literacy project (however do not feel
> >> > in a hurry because the school year is now
> >> > almost over).
> >> > Regarding LSFB classes, using SW with LSFB beginner students has
> >> > proved successful :
> >> > they are more accurate when signing, but we still need confirmation
> >> > and they also need further training on
> >> > SW.
> >> > Bruno and I would like the Brazilian manual to be translated into
> >> > French. It is very good for us
> >> > and matches our expectations. We both feel it has more visual
> >> > details than the first SW manual (which is of
> >> > course very good for a crash course). I was thinking about
> >> > translating it during the following months (and
> >> > add our own examples) and also make a short training video in LSFB
> >> > for deaf people.
> >> > That's all for
> >> > now... Hope it's all good news for you!
> >> > Thierry
> >> >
> >> > - ------=_20060614230525_63454
> >> > Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
> >> > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
> >> >
> >> > <p>Hello Val, </p><p>Hope you are going well... I have been very
> >> > busy lately but I wanted to give you a few
> >> > news from French-speaking Belgium : </p><p>Damien and I trained
> >> > four people on SW today. Three of them are
> >> > Sign Language teachers. They were all amazed by the possibilities
> >> > of SW and will spread the word around.
> >> > They asked us to train them again in October. </p><p>We plan to
> >> > introduce SW to LSFB interpreters when the
> >> > new interpreter training will be launched- (probably in 2007). </
> >> > p><p>Our website <a
> >> > href="http://www.lsfb.be">www.lsfb.be</a> now contains 202 signs
> >> > with SW. There are several hundreds more
> >> > signs waiting to be inserted, but it takes a lot of time. We need
> >> > to correct all the signs in the Sign
> >> > Puddle (some people have been adding wrong signs, and I have not
> >> > had the time to change them) We will add
> >> > many more signs to our website before September. Please feel free
> >> > to correct any spellings that seem odd to
> >> > you by sending me a message. You can check them by watching the
> >> > videos and comparing them with the SW
> >> > spellings. We still want to learn! </p><p>The training at the Deaf
> >> > school of Ghlin is almost over. I still
> >> > need three more mornings and then the deaf teachers will be able to
> >> > use SW in class. The SW will officially
> >> > be used from September in that school. In Liege, Cecile is still
> >> > using SW with her deaf students. </p><p>A
> >> > couple of hearing students have written their BA thesis on SW. One
> >> > of them designed materials (especially
> >> > games) to be used in class with deaf kids. I forgot to ask Cecile
> >> > to send you a copy because I found it
> >> > really amazing (lots of colour pictures with clear explanations).
> >> > Cecile told me she has still not received
> >> > anything from you about the literacy project (however do not feel
> >> > in a hurry because the school year is now
> >> > almost over).  </p><p>Regarding LSFB classes, using SW with LSFB
> >> > beginner students has proved successful :
> >> > they are more accurate when signing, but we still need confirmation
> >> > and they also need further training on
> >> > SW. </p><p>Bruno and I would like the Brazilian manual to be
> >> > translated into French. It is very good for us
> >> > and matches our expectations. We both feel it has more visual
> >> > details than the first SW manual (which is of
> >> > course very good for a crash course). I was thinking about
> >> > translating it during the following months (and
> >> > add our own examples) and also make a short training video in LSFB
> >> > for deaf people.  </p><p>That's all for
> >> > now... Hope it's all good news for you! </p><p>Thierry</p>
> >> > - ------=_20060614230525_63454--
> >> >
> >> > ------------------------------
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > Shane Gilchrist Ó hEorpa D.D.
> > Sign Language Centre Belfast Trust
> > 15 Church Street
> > Belfast BT1 1PG
> > Northern Ireland
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 23:47:59 +0200
> From: Juliette Dalle <july.tigre at free.fr>
> Subject: Re: [sw-l] Young children learning SignWriting?
>
> In France : to start of 5 years. I work in 4 classes of different age :
> 5, 6-7, 8 and 14 years old.
> With the kids aged 5, we don't give them all Sw lesson, just the basic
> very minimum, it is very enough.
>
> ;-)
>
> good night
>
> Juliette
>
> Le jeudi, 15 juin 2006, à 18:22 Europe/Paris, Valerie Sutton a écrit :
>
> > SignWriting List
> > June 15, 2006
> >
> > Shane Gilchrist O hEorpa wrote:
> >> news from our side in Belfast.
> >>
> >> We had our first Education Subcommittee yesterday and we have started
> >> to plan the Playgroup - we were discussing how SW can be introduced -
> >> we don't know if SW can be taught to younger kids say aged 3?
> >> Which age shall SW be introduced to kids then?
> >
> >
> > Hi Shane!
> > My experience has been that any age is fine! Reading and writing is
> > good for people whether they be age 3 or age 83...smile...
> >
> > In Albuquerque, New Mexico, I know of a child age 5 that was
> > introduced to SignWriting and she could read it quickly...teacher Dr.
> > Cecilia Flood...I can find that documentation if you wish...
> >
> > Stefan...what age are they learning in Germany?
> >
> > Juliette...what age are they learning in France?
> >
> > Kathleen or Thierry...what age in Belgium?
> >
> > James...what age in Nicaragua?
> >
> >
> > Val ;-)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 07:13:11 +0800
> From: "Nana Dumitra" <nana.dumitra at SCHLOSSKLAUS.AT>
> Subject: RE: [sw-l] Young children learning SignWriting?
>
> Dear Val and List,
>
> Even though we are moving - today (grin) - I could not resist writing an
> answer to this question:
>
> We do not have experience with a formal school or kindergarten setting,
> but from our family (4 kids, 4 - 10 years old) I can tell you, that you
> can start introducing some SW VERY early. My 4 year old knows enough FSL
> to communicate on a normal level for his age ("child structures", some
> invented signs, but can be understood well and in all situations by FSL
> users - he grew up with FSL from day 1). We just used SW for the past 2
> 1/2 years in our house, he was around and picked it up. He cannot write
> as much as he can read, but he can read almost any sign he can sign.
>
> So my answer would be, yes, you can introduce SW to very young children,
> especially for them to get familiarized with the hand shapes and some of
> the easier movement and the contact symbols. They will be able to read
> it even before a hearing child would be able to read English or so (our
> above mentioned son is just starting to read capital letters, he cannot
> yet sound out words in German or English). As long as you keep it fun,
> interesting and - if there need to be "formal" lessons - short, I don't
> see a problem introducing SW as soon as possible.
>
> Greetings from the Philippines (one last time),
> Nana
>
> - -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-sw-l at majordomo.valenciacc.edu
> [mailto:owner-sw-l at majordomo.valenciacc.edu] On Behalf Of Valerie Sutton
> Sent: Freitag, 16. Juni 2006 00:23
> To: sw-l at majordomo.valenciacc.edu
> Subject: [sw-l] Young children learning SignWriting?
>
> SignWriting List
> June 15, 2006
>
> Shane Gilchrist O hEorpa wrote:
> > news from our side in Belfast.
> >
> > We had our first Education Subcommittee yesterday and we have started
> > to plan the Playgroup - we were discussing how SW can be introduced -
> > we don't know if SW can be taught to younger kids say aged 3?
> > Which age shall SW be introduced to kids then?
>
>
> Hi Shane!
> My experience has been that any age is fine! Reading and writing is
> good for people whether they be age 3 or age 83...smile...
>
> In Albuquerque, New Mexico, I know of a child age 5 that was
> introduced to SignWriting and she could read it quickly...teacher Dr.
> Cecilia Flood...I can find that documentation if you wish...
>
> Stefan...what age are they learning in Germany?
>
> Juliette...what age are they learning in France?
>
> Kathleen or Thierry...what age in Belgium?
>
> James...what age in Nicaragua?
>
>
> Val ;-)
>
>
>
>
> - --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.0/366 - Release Date:
> 15.06.2006
>
>
> - --
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.0/366 - Release Date:
> 15.06.2006
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 00:59:18 +0100
> From: "Shane Gilchrist O hEorpa" <shane.gilchrist.oheorpa at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [sw-l] BELGIUM (FRENCH) : News
>
> hello Juliette,
>
> what age do the kids start school?
>
> in Northern Ireland, it's the age of 4.
>
> :-)
>
> Shane
>
> On 15/06/06, Juliette Dalle <july.tigre at free.fr> wrote:
> > Hm..
> >
> > In our classes, we don't teach so early. We give the SW lesson to 5
> > years old minimum. As the writting language, we don't teach or make
> > read the children any text (SW or writting language) before teh age of
> > 5. In my opinion, it is too early for teaching SW to kids of 3-4 years
> > old !
> >
> > Take care
> >
> > Juliette
> >
> > Le jeudi, 15 juin 2006, à 16:23 Europe/Paris, Shane Gilchrist O hEorpa
> > a écrit :
> >
> > > Thierry,
> > >
> > > that is really amazing, Thierry and I am very delighted for you!
> > >
> > > news from our side in Belfast.
> > >
> > > We had our first Education Subcommittee yesterday and we have started
> > > to plan the Playgroup - we were discussing how SW can be introduced -
> > > we don't know if SW can be taught to younger kids say aged 3?
> > >
> > > Which age shall SW be introduced to kids then?
> > >
> > > Shane
> > >
> > > On 15/06/06, Deaf Action Committee for SW <dac at signwriting.org> wrote:
> > >> SignWriting List
> > >> June 14, 2006
> > >>
> > >> Hello Thierry and everyone in French- Belgium!
> > >> I got so much email today, that I just now noticed this great report
> > >> from Belgium! Thank you, Thierry, for reporting to us. And, as
> > >> members of our SignWriting Literacy Project, I plan to send you some
> > >> materials, plus create a web page about your schools and
> > >> students...so there is much ahead...I got behind and I am sorry about
> > >> that...I guess the new school year will be the time for me to send
> > >> you our materials...
> > >>
> > >> It is late at night here, while you are just waking and starting your
> > >> day...you are in the next day....which will be my tomorrow....while I
> > >> am in your "last night"... kind of poetic ;-)
> > >>
> > >> It is hard to believe that while it is light where you are, it is
> > >> dark where I am...we are on the other side of the world from each
> > >> other....and yet the internet brings us together!
> > >>
> > >> So close and yet so far, as they say!
> > >>
> > >> I plan to study your message below in detail and answer tomorrow,
> > >> California time...Thanks so much for this report!
> > >>
> > >> Val ;-)
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> > Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 23:05:25 +0200 (CEST)
> > >> > From: "Thierry Haesenne" <thierry.haesenne at ilmh.be>
> > >> > Subject: [sw-l] BELGIUM (FRENCH) : News
> > >> >
> > >> > Hello Val,
> > >> > Hope you are going well... I have been very busy lately but I
> > >> > wanted to give you a few
> > >> > news from French-speaking Belgium :
> > >> > Damien and I trained four people on SW today. Three of them are
> > >> > Sign Language teachers. They were all amazed by the possibilities
> > >> > of SW and will spread the word around.
> > >> > They asked us to train them again in October.
> > >> > We plan to introduce SW to LSFB interpreters when the
> > >> > new interpreter training will be launched- (probably in 2007).
> > >> > Our website www.lsfb.be now contains 202 signs with SW. There are
> > >> > several hundreds more
> > >> > signs waiting to be inserted, but it takes a lot of time. We need
> > >> > to correct all the signs in the Sign
> > >> > Puddle (some people have been adding wrong signs, and I have not
> > >> > had the time to change them) We will add
> > >> > many more signs to our website before September. Please feel free
> > >> > to correct any spellings that seem odd to
> > >> > you by sending me a message. You can check them by watching the
> > >> > videos and comparing them with the SW
> > >> > spellings. We still want to learn!
> > >> > The training at the Deaf school of Ghlin is almost over. I still
> > >> > need three more mornings and then the deaf teachers will be able to
> > >> > use SW in class. The SW will officially
> > >> > be used from September in that school. In Liege, Cecile is still
> > >> > using SW with her deaf students.
> > >> > A
> > >> > couple of hearing students have written their BA thesis on SW. One
> > >> > of them designed materials (especially
> > >> > games) to be used in class with deaf kids. I forgot to ask Cecile
> > >> > to send you a copy because I found it
> > >> > really amazing (lots of colour pictures with clear explanations).
> > >> > Cecile told me she has still not received
> > >> > anything from you about the literacy project (however do not feel
> > >> > in a hurry because the school year is now
> > >> > almost over).
> > >> > Regarding LSFB classes, using SW with LSFB beginner students has
> > >> > proved successful :
> > >> > they are more accurate when signing, but we still need confirmation
> > >> > and they also need further training on
> > >> > SW.
> > >> > Bruno and I would like the Brazilian manual to be translated into
> > >> > French. It is very good for us
> > >> > and matches our expectations. We both feel it has more visual
> > >> > details than the first SW manual (which is of
> > >> > course very good for a crash course). I was thinking about
> > >> > translating it during the following months (and
> > >> > add our own examples) and also make a short training video in LSFB
> > >> > for deaf people.
> > >> > That's all for
> > >> > now... Hope it's all good news for you!
> > >> > Thierry
> > >> >
> > >> > - ------=_20060614230525_63454
> > >> > Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
> > >> > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
> > >> >
> > >> > <p>Hello Val, </p><p>Hope you are going well... I have been very
> > >> > busy lately but I wanted to give you a few
> > >> > news from French-speaking Belgium : </p><p>Damien and I trained
> > >> > four people on SW today. Three of them are
> > >> > Sign Language teachers. They were all amazed by the possibilities
> > >> > of SW and will spread the word around.
> > >> > They asked us to train them again in October. </p><p>We plan to
> > >> > introduce SW to LSFB interpreters when the
> > >> > new interpreter training will be launched- (probably in 2007). </
> > >> > p><p>Our website <a
> > >> > href="http://www.lsfb.be">www.lsfb.be</a> now contains 202 signs
> > >> > with SW. There are several hundreds more
> > >> > signs waiting to be inserted, but it takes a lot of time. We need
> > >> > to correct all the signs in the Sign
> > >> > Puddle (some people have been adding wrong signs, and I have not
> > >> > had the time to change them) We will add
> > >> > many more signs to our website before September. Please feel free
> > >> > to correct any spellings that seem odd to
> > >> > you by sending me a message. You can check them by watching the
> > >> > videos and comparing them with the SW
> > >> > spellings. We still want to learn! </p><p>The training at the Deaf
> > >> > school of Ghlin is almost over. I still
> > >> > need three more mornings and then the deaf teachers will be able to
> > >> > use SW in class. The SW will officially
> > >> > be used from September in that school. In Liege, Cecile is still
> > >> > using SW with her deaf students. </p><p>A
> > >> > couple of hearing students have written their BA thesis on SW. One
> > >> > of them designed materials (especially
> > >> > games) to be used in class with deaf kids. I forgot to ask Cecile
> > >> > to send you a copy because I found it
> > >> > really amazing (lots of colour pictures with clear explanations).
> > >> > Cecile told me she has still not received
> > >> > anything from you about the literacy project (however do not feel
> > >> > in a hurry because the school year is now
> > >> > almost over).  </p><p>Regarding LSFB classes, using SW with LSFB
> > >> > beginner students has proved successful :
> > >> > they are more accurate when signing, but we still need confirmation
> > >> > and they also need further training on
> > >> > SW. </p><p>Bruno and I would like the Brazilian manual to be
> > >> > translated into French. It is very good for us
> > >> > and matches our expectations. We both feel it has more visual
> > >> > details than the first SW manual (which is of
> > >> > course very good for a crash course). I was thinking about
> > >> > translating it during the following months (and
> > >> > add our own examples) and also make a short training video in LSFB
> > >> > for deaf people.  </p><p>That's all for
> > >> > now... Hope it's all good news for you! </p><p>Thierry</p>
> > >> > - ------=_20060614230525_63454--
> > >> >
> > >> > ------------------------------
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Shane Gilchrist Ó hEorpa D.D.
> > > Sign Language Centre Belfast Trust
> > > 15 Church Street
> > > Belfast BT1 1PG
> > > Northern Ireland
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> - --
> Shane Gilchrist Ó hEorpa D.D.
> Sign Language Centre Belfast Trust
> 15 Church Street
> Belfast BT1 1PG
> Northern Ireland
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of sw-l-digest V1 #1696
> ***************************
>
>
>