Stokoe Notation compared to SignWriting
sutton at SIGNWRITING.ORG
Wed Mar 1 18:23:05 UTC 2006
March 1, 2006
Thank you for this message!
> The "Basic ASL Dictionary" is my planned title. I'll post Appendix
> to you today, if I remember. Do you suppose that your "Absent
> is contageous? Via my "ViewSonic" PC screen ?(I would have said
> but I can't spell it).
Ha! Contageous? Oh dear. I hope not!
> The concepts I chose to include in my dictionary were my "Sample
> Val. The ASL vocabulary is the field, Signs I drew and wrote, "The
> ChosenOnes"; these were my "Samples" of the total vocabulary list.
> Of the
> area of signing,I chose a smaller space to stuff into my glorious
you know, I fear that you think I have seen some diagrams from your
work, but I could not see any diagrams before...so I am not sure what
you are referring to, but that is ok, Frank...let's wait...I am
swamped with work, just as I know you are...
I mailed our American Sign Language dictionary in SignWriting to you
yesterday, so you should receive it in the mail in a few days...
> The Linguist C.K. Ogden proposed his Basic English ("Basic English,
> International Second Language") for an International language--to
> help unite
> the world in a family and stop fighting. Roosevelt and Churchill
> Basic English. The acquisition of a second language is my
> interest Val;
> the way people learn and how to encourage language acquisition
> When I learn English, I'll consider teaching it.
Wow. Your English sounds excellent to me! ;-))
> I'm surprised you're not a master with Stokoe Notation; Surely
> competitors should know whom they strive with to use his strengths
> and avoid
> his faults.
Ah. That is where you are wrong. I am not a competitor of Dr. Stokoe!
Neither Dr. Stokoe nor I wanted to do the same thing. We had
conversations together about this... So please do not assume that I
am trying to compete with Dr. Stokoe...I am not a linguist nor would
I ever want to be...I leave that to other experts...like Dr. Stokoe!
I can imagine that our SignWriting, DanceWriting and
MovementWriting web sites, with our thousands of pages, are a bit
overwhelming...We do have a history of the writing system there,
which explains that I did not base Sutton Movement Writing on any
other writing system...I was asked to write the movements of Danish
signs from a videotape by researchers at the University of Copenhagen
in 1974, while teaching the Royal Danish Ballet my DanceWriting
system...so I knew nothing about signed languages or the world of
linguistics when I first wrote what I saw on the Danish Sign Language
videotape...I was writing the signs as a movement notator...and from
that work, I personally became inspired to see if we could take a
general movement notation system, like Sutton Movement Writing, and
apply it to creating a visual writing system for any signed language
in the world, based on writing the facial expressions and movements
of the body, rather than based on any linguistic principles...This
has created a flexible tool that is not based on ASL at all, since we
write body movement in general.
Later I found out, when working with others in the signed language
professions, that there was something called Sign Language
Linguistics, and at that later time I learned about Dr. Stokoe. I was
surprised at the abstract nature of his writing system...where were
the visual facial expressions? And using a letter from the Roman
alphabet, like the letter Y, to represent a handshape used to show
the letter Y in the American Manual Alphabet would only be confusing
for someone writing another signed language, that does not use the
American Manual Alphabet. What about Russian Sign Language, that does
not use the Roman Alphabet? How would Stokoe write handshapes that
have no connection with any spoken language? How would he write
gesture or mime, as we do in SignWriting?
So I did not first write ASL. Our first signed language was Danish
Sign Language, and we now write around 40 signed languages...based on
how the body looks when we sign...
> I've been continually struck with similarities in the analysis
> of SW, Stokoe and Labanotation.
Ha! That's great. I didn't realize that, but that is
interesting...Too bad Laban had to be so abstract...I do not know
many dancers who enjoy reading Laban...but it is excellent for
analysis I know and I know you are very skilled...Did you know that
Ann Hutchinson Guest included Sutton DanceWriting in a comparison of
notation systems in a bound book? It was wonderful to be included and
I am grateful to her...have you seen that book?
> The greatest real difference is the manner
> of symbolization. Because your own analysis and that of Bill
> Stokoe is so
> similar, I'd suspect you're actually ambilanguagous; I fear
> bilingual might
> imply you hold your pen in your teeth, so I hesitate to write
> Besides, SW only involves the tongue if you cluck while you write.
> I drew the dictionary because I needed it, Val. No single
> source of ASL information had all the concepts I most often thought
> espressed myself with. I made abstracts of commended dictionaries,
> what they said, and consulted the Deaf Community to fill in the
> spaces these
> resources (eg Costello, Sternberg and Riekehof) did not speak to.
> My first
> edition, then, is eclectic, it immortalizes aspects of the visual
> ASL drawn from sources in Utah (Wilson), Lexington , Mass
> (Sternberg) and
> Gallaudet Univ. (Stokoe), etc.
Wonderful! It sounds exciting. I look forward to seeing it!
> Your plump yummy pictographs have restored
> me to the world of reality.
Thank you Frank! I am glad you are enjoying looking at
SignWriting.... I am a realist too. I know you enjoy writing with
other systems, but I appreciate your interest in looking at least, at
what we are doing!
Many blessings to you!
Sutton at SignWriting.org
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