Stokoe Notation compared to SignWriting
Frank
frankbyrom at ISP.COM
Wed Mar 1 16:11:45 UTC 2006
Dear Val,
The "Basic ASL Dictionary" is my planned title. I'll post Appendix two
to you today, if I remember. Do you suppose that your "Absent Mindedness"
is contageous? Via my "ViewSonic" PC screen ?(I would have said Monitor,
but I can't spell it).
The concepts I chose to include in my dictionary were my "Sample space"
Val. The ASL vocabulary is the field, Signs I drew and wrote, "The
ChosenOnes"; these were my "Samples" of the total vocabulary list. Of the
area of signing,I chose a smaller space to stuff into my glorious endeavor.
The Linguist C.K. Ogden proposed his Basic English ("Basic English,
International Second Language") for an International language--to help unite
the world in a family and stop fighting. Roosevelt and Churchill praised
Basic English. The acquisition of a second language is my interest Val;
the way people learn and how to encourage language acquisition effectively.
When I learn English, I'll consider teaching it.
I'm surprised you're not a master with Stokoe Notation; Surely
competitors should know whom they strive with to use his strengths and avoid
his faults. I've been continually struck with similarities in the analysis
of SW, Stokoe and Labanotation. The greatest real difference is the manner
of symbolization. Because your own analysis and that of Bill Stokoe is so
similar, I'd suspect you're actually ambilanguagous; I fear bilingual might
imply you hold your pen in your teeth, so I hesitate to write bilingual.
Besides, SW only involves the tongue if you cluck while you write.
I drew the dictionary because I needed it, Val. No single respected
source of ASL information had all the concepts I most often thought and
espressed myself with. I made abstracts of commended dictionaries, compared
what they said, and consulted the Deaf Community to fill in the spaces these
resources (eg Costello, Sternberg and Riekehof) did not speak to. My first
edition, then, is eclectic, it immortalizes aspects of the visual language
ASL drawn from sources in Utah (Wilson), Lexington , Mass (Sternberg) and
Gallaudet Univ. (Stokoe), etc.
Hope your week is going well. I began this week charmed by your
visualization of signing into pictographs of hands. Language tends to the
abstract as it matures, until it reaches the stages of Inoculatte and
Decafalon, the drug trade of intellectuals. The first meaning mainlining
coffee when running late in the morning, the second an ordeal of getting
through the day without coffee. Your plump yummy pictographs have restored
me to the world of reality.
Sincerely yours, Frank
Original Message -----
From: "Valerie Sutton" <sutton at signwriting.org>
To: <sw-l at majordomo.valenciacc.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 12:28 AM
Subject: Re: [sw-l] Stokoe Notation compared to SignWriting
> SignWriting List
> February 28, 2006
>
> Hello Frank!
> Thank you for this message...
>
>
> >> On Feb 28, 2006, at 7:15 PM, Frank wrote:
> >>> I'm beginnning to read your symbols more easily, and infer theory
> >>> behind
> >>> symbols. Now I've finished entering reference citations for my
> >>> dictionary
> >>> sample space, I have more time to sample your work.
>
> I feel honored you have taken the time to look at SignWriting. I
> believe you told me before that you are skilled in writing both
> Labanotation in the dance notation world, and the Stokoe Notation in
> the linguistic profession...It is rare to meet a person with two such
> skills...very impressive indeed...
>
> Tell us more about your dictionary...is it titled "Sample
> Space"?...What does sample space mean?
>
> And did you tell me that your book will be used to teach English? I
> was not sure I understood, so I hope you will tell us more about it...
>
> And thank you for taking the time to inform us about the Stokoe
> system below...I appreciate that...smile...
>
> We can talk more about Dr. Stokoe and the reasons why he and I
> invented different systems, but first I want to know more about your
> work the Sample Space dictionary...What inspired you to create such a
> project?
>
>
>
>
> >>> Personally, I found transitioning to think with you in terms of your
> >>> symbolization a bit ragged.
>
>
> Ha! I am not surprised. The messages on the List have been confused
> lately...I have been quite overwhelmed with too many
> projects...smile...like an absent-minded professor - ha!
>
> Plus we never really communicated about our different projects...so
> now we can...smile...
>
>
>
> >>> Somehow I didn't notice, in your web site, an
> >>> intro passage that conditioned my thinking to see what you've
> >>> done and how
> >>> you think when you write.
>
>
> Sure. I can see how that would take some getting used to, once you
> know Labanotation and Stokoe notation...two very different approaches...
>
>
> >>> I've included an intro passage of the type I
> >>> referred to above to show you what I mean. Its the first page of
> >>> my:
> >>> A
> >>> ppendix
> >>> 2
> >>> Dr William C.
> >>> Stokoe Jr.
> >>> ASL Script
> >>> You'll forgive me,I hope, for not having Dr. Stokoe's symbols I
> >>> left spaces
> >>> for in this passage. My scanner's on my laptop; the desktop I
> >>> write with
> >>> doesn't have the soft (grey) ware yet to recognize what the
> >>> scanner the
> >>> scanner sees. I bet you could fill in the blanks from memory.
>
>
> Oh. I am sorry to hear about your scanner...machines can be very
> annoying. But I am not following how I could fill in the blanks from
> memory? I never studied the Stokoe system. I didn't even know it
> existed when I first invented SignWriting and the two notation
> systems have no connection. It is true that I have seen his
> dictionary, and when we met we discussed some of these things...he
> gave me a copy of the dictionary, and we met several times....but I
> do not know his book by memory - I am on another planet, so to speak...
>
> Both Dr. Stokoe and I openly said, to our audience, when we presented
> together in 1978 in Chicago at a national conference, that our two
> writing systems had no connection to each other, nor were they
> invented for the same reasons, or had the same goals...but we
> compared them, in front of everyone, and that was a great memory for
> me...a true honor...
>
> Thanks so much for the writing below...it is very interesting!
>
> In the next message I will show the SW List a comparison between the
> two systems...
>
> Hope you will tell us about your new book, Frank - I am interested...
>
> Val ;-)
>
>
>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Appendix 2
> >>> Dr William C.
> >>> Stokoe Jr.
> >>> ASL Script
> >>> Dr. Stokoe's notation for ASL, like the Basic English word
> >>> list, can be
> >>> written on one side of a sheet of paper. The symbols he used are
> >>> pictographic and easily remembered, once seen and used. Refer to
> >>> the
> >>> symbols on page 3 as you read this explanation. Notice the four
> >>> columns,
> >>> labeled Tab, Dez, Sig and Writing Conventions, with 12, 19, 24
> >>> and 20
> >>> symbols respectively. The total is 75 symbols. This seems to be
> >>> a large
> >>> number of symbols until examined. Nineteen symbols are simply
> >>> the alphabet
> >>> letters. The following capital letters are not used by Dr.
> >>> Stokoe: Disc
> >>> Jockey MeN Probably Question STUdenZ . He chose to use the other
> >>> 16 letters
> >>> of the alphabet, excluded DJMHPQSTUZ. He included with the alphabet
> >>> letters, two numbers and a
> >>>
> >>> symbol for an allocher of the letter Y, O .
> >>> Notice that Dr. Stokoe includes 5, 3, and O with the alphabet
> >>> letters.
> >>> You know the signs for 5,
> >>>
> >>> 3, and the alphabet. O is an allocher, a variation of the
> >>> letter Y sign,
> >>> perhaps with the middle
> >>>
> >>> finger extended as when you sign prefer, , or with
> >>> the index
> >>> finger extended while making
> >>>
> >>> the Y sign, as in the sign for "I love you". The remaining
> >>> symbols are
> >>> engagingly simple, as
> >>>
> >>> for whole head, upper head, lower
> >>> head, nose,
> >>> torso, upper arm and
> >>>
> >>> lower arm. Subtracting the 19 symbols cited leaves
> >>> only 56
> >>> symbols to consider. My glossary with definitions, pages 4,5,6
> >>> of this
> >>> appendix shows the meanings of all the symbols.
> >>>
> >>> For directions like up ,down ,
> >>> left ,right
> >>> , you probably recognize meanings from their shapes. When the
> >>> number of
> >>> obvious symbols are, subtracted, 47 symbols remain to
> >>>
> >>> consider, symbols like , for nodding, as when YES is
> >>> written,
> >>> , or for circular
> >>>
> >>> movement as in writing ALL, ; but
> >>> even these
> >>> are easy to recoginize after being seen and used once or twice.
> >>> The order
> >>> of symbols in notations is Tab Dez and then Sig from left to right.
> >>> Variations in signing exist; but location of signs is relatively
> >>> constant.
> >>> Dr. Stokoe notes this by saying, for example, boy or man is signed
> >>> , near the upper head,
> >>>
> >>> and ADVERTISEMENT is signed , in the
> >>> neutral
> >>> space before the body. The 12
> >>>
> >>> Tab signs, , , etc., show areas where signs
> >>> are located.
> >>>
> >>> When the 19 alphabet and the 12 Tab signs are deducted from
> >>> the 74 total
> >>> ,we have remaining
> >>>
> >>> 44 signs to learn. These signs show movement and relationship,
> >>> for example,
> >>> is the notation for sweet. The G hand brushes down across the
> >>> lower face
> >>> (lips), Notice the form; Tab, Dez Sig. This is the order
> >>> elements of a
> >>> sign are written in. Tab, Dez, and Sig refer to Place, Hand
> >>> Shape, and
> >>> Movement. These are three elements of a particular sign in the
> >>> gestural
> >>> language we call Sign.
> >>> The TABula shows the location, DEZignator gives hand shape,
> >>> and SIGnation
> >>> shows movement. Conventions of writing modify the Tab,Dez,Sig and
> >>> express
> >>> relatonships. That's the alpha to omega of Stokoe notation.
> >>> It's easy to
> >>> use. In the Stokoe script for beautiful,
> >>>
> >>> the 5 hand circles the face, closing ( ) to an A hand. The
> >>> writing
> >>> convention that separates
> >>>
> >>> two parts of a sign is . The dot, , over the
> >>> A (A)
> >>> shows the thumb is prominent. The
> >>>
> >>> thumb is prominent in the sign for girl, . Notice
> >>> that some
> >>> writing convention symbols,
> >>>
> >>> , , , , are the same as SIGnation
> >>> symbols,
> >>> contracting, , as in beautiful,
> >>> for example.
> >>> This notation is not perfect; but the analysis of placement,
> >>> handshape
> >>> and motion is powerful. Using the index of meanings, page three,
> >>> and my
> >>> drawings now, compare the notations below my drawings to see how
> >>> Stokoe
> >>> notation can be used to write ASL signs. Is there only one way
> >>> to write a
> >>> sign? Ask Erskine Caldwell, James Joyce and Hawthorne to
> >>> describe a scene,
> >>> and compare what they say. Right! There are at least two ways
> >>> to write
> >>> every sign. This is one power of Dr. Stokoe's notation you can
> >>> write the
> >>> sign as you do it, and then compare this to how
> >>> your best authority says sign it. Like English, symbols often
> >>> have several
> >>> meanings, for
> >>>
> >>> example may mean repeat, as in frequently ,
> >>> pominent
> >>> thumb as in girl,
> >>>
> >>> , or emphasis as in , strict
> >>>
> >>> I believe you'll find this notation easy and simple to use.
> >>> It records
> >>> enough information to cause remembering a sign without being
> >>> bulky and
> >>> unmanageable, and expresses units of information in Sign much
> >>> like our
> >>> alphabet expresses words, units of information in our spoken
> >>> language. If
> >>> you carefully read this introduction again, and each definition
> >>> of meaning
> >>> for the symbols, you'll discover, I believe, this sign notation
> >>> system is
> >>> quite usable. When writing a sign new to you, include a gloss
> >>> (English
> >>> meaning) with notations until the sign is comfortable in your
> >>> memory. ASL
> >>> Notations, like our alphabetic writing, are intended to cause
> >>> recall of
> >>> what is already known to us, not, usually, to introduce new
> >>> concepts.
> >>> Refering to the symbol definitions as you examine the script
> >>> under drawings
> >>> of signs may sometimes be helpful in gaining a rapid mastery
> >>> off this ASL
> >>> script. Dr.Stokoe's Dictionary (see my Bibliography) and some
> >>> other of his
> >>> works also present his ASL script in a detailed fashion.
> >>> Just as a dictionary does not present a full gramatical
> >>> analysis of the
> >>> language it lists morphemes of (units of meaning, words), I will
> >>> not include
> >>> the full range of writing conventions of
> >>>
> >>> Dr. Stokoe here. Several, , for example, as in the
> >>> script for
> >>> BEAUTIFUL, and , as in the script for girl are worth
> >>> mentioning.
> >>> When the 5 hand closes in the sign for "BEAUTIFUL" ,
> >>> "contracting", it may
> >>> close to the form of an A or an O. The bracketed A shows that A
> >>> is the
> >>> final hand shape. Sig symbols that are written one over the
> >>> other one show
> >>> relationships and movements that are done together. The touch
> >>> and the down
> >>> movement, in the script for girl is an
> >>>
> >>> example of this, . A symbol near the Dez shows a
> >>> starting
> >>> position, as in THIN, when the "G" hand
> >>> straddles the nose
> >>> to start, and then moves downward during the sign.
> >>>
> >>> THIS LITTLE UNPRETENTIOUS INTRO TO THE STOKOE SCRIPT
> >>> ILLUSTRATES WHAT,
> >>> THE KIND OF INTO, WOULD HAVE HELPED ME TO TRANSITION TO THINKING
> >>> WITH
> >>> vALERIE MORE SMOOTHLY.
> >>> Sincerely yours, Frank
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>> From: "Valerie Sutton" <sutton at signwriting.org>
> >>> To: <sw-l at majordomo.valenciacc.edu>
> >>> Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 5:14 PM
> >>> Subject: Re: [sw-l] MOUTH Cheeva and Cha
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> SignWriting List
> >>>> February 28, 2006
> >>>>
> >>>>> Adam Frost in California wrote:
> >>>>> 4 is a smile and 6 is an open smile. I think that 5 is a smile
> >>>>> that
> >>>>> is forced? At least that is what it looks like to me.
> >>>>
> >>>> Correct! The second row, reading from left to right, are
> >>>>
> >>>> 4. Closed Smile
> >>>> 5. Closed Smile with wrinkles at the sides of the mouth
> >>>> 6. Open Smile
> >>>>
> >>>> Number 5 is interesting. Why does a person have wrinkles at the
> >>>> side
> >>>> of a smile? If they are young and have good skin (smile) they
> >>>> probably are a little tense while smiling, or otherwise there would
> >>>> not be wrinkles at the side of the mouth...so by adding
> >>>> wrinkles, you
> >>>> add the feeling of a little more tension or emphasis on that
> >>>> smile...I used those wrinkles near a smile for some of the poetry
> >>>> where Kevin was smiling, but establishing a classifier in space and
> >>>> there was a little tension on his smile, to show that anchoring...
> >>>>
> >>>> The next row of faces is the same except it is a frown instead of a
> >>>> smile...
> >>>>
> >>>> The fourth row....Adam...How do you read the fourth row?
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> --------
> >>> ----
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
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