AW: [sw-l] Sleeping Beauty part 5

K.J. Boal kjoanne403 at HOTMAIL.COM
Mon Apr 30 16:48:43 UTC 2007 

Thanks Stefan!
KJ


>From: "Stefan Wöhrmann"<stefanwoehrmann at GEBAERDENSCHRIFT.DE>
>Reply-To: sw-l at majordomo.valenciacc.edu
>To: sw-l at majordomo.valenciacc.edu
>Subject: AW: [sw-l] Sleeping Beauty part 5
>Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 10:19:50 +0200
>
>Hi Kelly Jo,
>
>I really enjoyed reading your comment and background information. Keep up
>with your transcription - in the end you will have become an almost perfect
>scribe - and that is worth it. And yes - keep on to write what you believe
>to see - smile!
>
>Stefan ;-)
>
>
>-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
>Von: owner-sw-l at majordomo.valenciacc.edu
>[mailto:owner-sw-l at majordomo.valenciacc.edu] Im Auftrag von K.J. Boal
>Gesendet: Montag, 30. April 2007 03:55
>An: sw-l at majordomo.valenciacc.edu
>Betreff: Re: [sw-l] Sleeping Beauty part 5
>
>I appreciate all the comments... thanks everyone!  I've had this idea in
>mind all along, that what I'm transcribing is exactly what I see on the
>video, and if something's hard for most people to read then it can be fixed
>up later.  I really like the idea of asking Darline to read the document
>herself!  That way we're not accidentally taking away from what she wanted
>to say or how she wanted to say it.
>
>I certainly don't blame her for not being perfectly clear in her signing...
>you're quite right, Val, exactly the same thing happens in spoken languages
>when the person is speaking naturally.  I'd rather transcribe the natural
>signing than an artificial, "stilted" signing.
>
>I haven't read "Catcher in the Rye", though I've heard of it, but I have
>read several other books written in dialect.  Some are harder to read than
>others... they do have value for some purposes, but there's also value to
>having standardized forms... I generally prefer standard writing over
>dialect, except in direct quotes.  In this case, however, I definitely 
>think
>
>the first draft should be as close to the video as possible, and any
>changes/improvements can be made later, by native ASL users. :-)  Thanks
>again for the feedback and encouragement, though... and thank YOU, Adam, 
>for
>
>figuring out what she was signing there!!! :-)  (That was really bugging
>me... but I would never have thought an ASL story would have the SEE
>apostrophe-S!  I recognize it now, but it just didn't occur to me before.)
>
>Sorry I haven't been online lately... I meant to have the third part
>transcribed and up by now, but I've been in bed since Friday with a 
>TERRIBLE
>
>cold...  I haven't been this sick for a long time! :-(  The headache has
>been so bad that I haven't been on the computer since then... but I'm on 
>the
>
>mend now and looking forward to getting back to work tomorrow! :-)  
>Thursday
>
>was my last day on the job, so now my work is transcribing Sleeping Beauty,
>taking care of the house, and making meals.  Looking forward to the 
>break...
>
>KJ
>
>
> >From: "Valerie Sutton" <signwriting at MAC.COM>
> >Reply-To: sw-l at majordomo.valenciacc.edu
> >To: sw-l at majordomo.valenciacc.edu
> >Subject: Re: [sw-l] Sleeping Beauty part 5
> >Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 22:09:21 -0700
> >
> >Another good idea, after thinking about what Steve said, is after the
> >transcription is written, based exactly on the way Darline signed on  the
> >video, we could ask Darline to read the document, to see how she  feels
> >about the transcription. Maybe she would want to improve the  written
> >document to include the name of the other king...and so  forth...so we
> >could ask Darline to be one of the editors to help us  make the written
> >document a little more formal and perhaps therefore  a little more
> >readable...but from the source of the signing...which  will show respect
> >for the language and for her performance ...
> >
> >Darline signed all four stories on the same day, in a studio, with  hot
> >lights, and did all four so well, that none had to be re- done...but it 
>is
> >not surprising that when one performs like that,  that some signs are not
> >as clear as others...that is true in spoken  languages too...
> >
> >There is a famous book that I was required to read in school "Catcher  in
> >the Rye"...and the English writing was slang, or writing dialects  of
> >English ...trying to capture the way an individual spoke
> >English...shortening vowels...like the word OLD becomes  ol'...etc...it 
>was
>
> >very hard to read...that is what our  transcriptions might be compared to
> >in ASL...if we are always writing  each individual's style, I suppose it
> >could be harder to read in some  cases ...
> >
> >So if we transcribe exactly the way it is signed in the first draft,  we
> >can always edit it later...
> >
> >Val ;-)
> >
> >--------
> >
> >
> >On Apr 27, 2007, at 9:25 PM, Adam Frost wrote:
> >
> >>I also agree with what Val and Stuart said too. Although, the  thought 
>of
> >>changing some writings came to me when I was looking at  the part that 
>was
>
> >>giving Kelly Jo a hard time (I believe it is her  page 8) because 
>Darlene
> >>essentially said that King Bert and the  (other) king's daughter would 
>get
>
> >>married when they grow up. :-P  But I decided not to even mention it
> >>before because that is how she  signed it and this is a transcription.
> >>
> >>Adam
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>From: "Stuart Thiessen" <sw at passitonservices.org>
> >>Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 23:14:13
> >>To:sw-l at majordomo.valenciacc.edu
> >>Subject: Re: [sw-l] Sleeping Beauty part 5
> >>
> >>I would agree with Valerie. I think it is better when a text is
> >>obviously from a video to transcribe it as it was signed on the
> >>video ... sloppy or not. To me, the purpose of creating a document
> >>from video is to create a snapshot of the person's style and how they
> >>would tell the story. So, to do justice to the person, we should
> >>transcribe it exactly.
> >>
> >>At the same time, during the editing process, we may discover certain
> >>grammatical errors or "pronunciation" errors or that sort of thing.
> >>This will be more easily fixed in the printed text than on video.
> >>Like Steve said, we would have to revideo that whole segment if we
> >>were trying to fix the video.
> >>
> >>Thanks,
> >>
> >>Stuart
> >>
> >>On Apr 27, 2007, at 22:07, Valerie Sutton wrote:
> >>
> >>>SignWriting List
> >>>April 27, 2007
> >>>
> >>>In theory, this is true. If SignWriting ASL was an older writing
> >>>system, and standardized spellings already existed in big
> >>>dictionaries (grin) (I know there will be a day when this will be
> >>>true)...that would be the right tact, to write the standardized
> >>>spellings. But right now, there are several ways to spell some
> >>>signs, and both spellings are correct from a movement perspective,
> >>>so Kelly Jo is correct that this can be a dilemma, when
> >>>standardized spellings do not exist yet, in the same way they do in
> >>>English. So Kelly Jo does have to make decisions without any
> >>>standardizations to point to...there is a possibility that a one-
> >>>handed sign might be important for the grammar of the sentence in
> >>>some cases...so the grammar can actually change the way the sign is
> >>>signed sometimes..I have not looked at this video yet, but it
> >>>could be possible...
> >>>
> >>>That is why, when I wrote Darline signing in Goldilocks, I tried to
> >>>write it the way she signed it...partly because I did not know if
> >>>it was important to ASL grammar to have a variation of the sign or
> >>>not. For example, when she signed the sign for baby daughter, there
> >>>were some blendings of signs that are a part of the grammar, and as
> >>>a foreigner to ASL I didn't want to influence the writing with my
> >>>guessing...so the video was my security blanket, so to speak, to
> >>>leave the ASL to Darline and I would not stand in judgement...just
> >>>write the best I could "what I see on the video"...
> >>>
> >>>So this is an issue of time...and experience...as we write more and
> >>>more literature..
> >>>
> >>>It is an exciting adventure to see this unfold...
> >>>
> >>>And it couldn't happen without SignPuddle!
> >>>
> >>>So Kelly Jo, I personally would write Darline as she signed it...in
> >>>general...with some exceptions of course! And then we can ask the
> >>>DAC to make the final decisions on these issues...;-))
> >>>
> >>>This is just the first draft and there will be an editing process
> >>>with Deaf writers before we publish, so don't worry too
> >>>much...maybe make some notes to yourself where there are signs you
> >>>are not sure of...
> >>>
> >>>Val ;-)
> >>>
> >>>-----------
> >>>
> >>>Steve Slevinski wrote:
> >>>>I'd write the correct sign correctly spelled..  That's the great
> >>>>thing about text.  We can fix individual signs.  To fix this
> >>>>particular sign on video they'd need to rerecord the entire segment.
> >>>>
> >>>>-Steve
> >>>>
> >>>>K.J. Boal wrote:
> >>>>>Thanks Charles... I definitely wanted to have both hands moving
> >>>>>for "ground", but that's not
> >>>>>how she signed it on the video.  I'm finding I'm running into
> >>>>>this a fair bit... do I write what she signed, which I know is
> >>>>>"sloppy", or do I write what I know the sign is *supposed* to
> >>>>>look like?
> >>>>>KJ
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>From: "Charles Butler" <chazzer3332000 at yahoo.com>
> >>>>>>Reply-To: sw-l at majordomo.valenciacc.edu
> >>>>>>To: sw-l at majordomo.valenciacc.edu
> >>>>>>Subject: Re: [sw-l] Sleeping Beauty part 5
> >>>>>>Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 02:46:16 -0700 (PDT)
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>You wrote "dirt" just fine.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>dirt
> >>>>>>dirt
> >>>>>>  Source: ASL
> >>>>>>Modified: March 29, 2007 19:02
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>I think this is what the sign with the fingers rubbing in a
> >>>>>>circle is supposed to be.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>It's a very interesting challenge.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>area
> >>>>>>land
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>Charles
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>"K.J. Boal" <kjoanne403 at HOTMAIL.COM> wrote: Jon,
> >>>>>>Second column second sign - no, the fingers are rubbing against
> >>>>>>each other
> >>>>>>in a circle.  The hands don't touch the chest.  I know that's
> >>>>>>confusing... I
> >>>>>>don't know how to make it clearer, though.  This and the third
> >>>>>>sign are kind
> >>>>>>of like a compound sign or a signed phrase meaning "Land".
> >>>>>>KJ
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>From: "Jonathan"
> >>>>>>>Reply-To: sw-l at majordomo.valenciacc.edu
> >>>>>>>To: sw-l at majordomo.valenciacc.edu
> >>>>>>>Subject: Re: [sw-l] Sleeping Beauty part 5
> >>>>>>>Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 07:59:58 -0600
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>KJ,
> >>>>>>>     Second column second sign.  I take that these hands are
> >>>>>>facing
> >>>>>>>inward rubbing on the chest.  But in what direction?  I haven't
> >>>>>>figured
> >>>>>>>this one out.
> >>>>>>>     Second column third sign.  Place??? or Area???
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>Jonathan
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>kjoanne403 at HOTMAIL.COM wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>How's it looking?
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>KJ
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>------------------------------------------------------------------ -
> >>>>>>-----
> >>>>>>>>Load message into SignText
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>134,,0%0A%0D%0A08-04-001-01-01-01,84,114,,0%0A%0D%
> >>>>>>0A03-01-001-01-01-02,89,50,03-06-0%
> >>>>>>0A01-01-01-02,89,50,01-05-001-01-01-03,128,52,01-05-001-01-01-11,5 3
> >>>>>>,
> >>>>>>59,02-03-001-02-01-05,141,76,02-03-001-02-02-05,57,82,01-09-002-01 -
> >>>>>>05-01,146,105,01-09-002-01-05-09,49,115,,0%0A%0D%
> >>>>>>0A01-01-001-01-06-02,92,104,01-01-001-01-06-16,68,108,02-09-001-01 -
> >>>>>>01-01,119,124,02-09-001-01-02-01,89,132,08-02-001-01-01-05,113,144 ,
> >>>>>>,0%0A%0D%
> >>>>>>0A01-05-011-01-04-08,113,114,01-05-011-01-04-08,85,123,02-09-001-0 1
> >>>>>>-01-01,130,136,02-09-001-01-02-01,99,144,08-02-001-01-01-05,125,15 8
> >>>>>>,,0%0A%0D%
> >>>>>>0A01-05-011-01-03-01,129,88,02-05-001-01-01-08,116,122,,0%0A%0D%
> >>>>>>0A06-01-002-02-01-04,62,97,06-01-002-03-01-05,90,125,03-01-001-01- 0
> >>>>>>1-01,80,60,03-06-001-01-01-05,80,60,02-01-001-01-01-01,115,59,02-0 1
> >>>>>>-001-01-01-01,92,113,01-05-011-01-02-02,123,71,01-05-011-01-04-02, 1
> >>>>>>04,114,02-03-001-02-01-04,107,89,,0%0A%0D%
> >>>>>>0A08-04-002-01-01-01,82,114,,0%0A
> >>>>>>%0D
> >>>>>>>%
> >>>>>>0A05-01-001-01-01-01,90,100,02-01-001-01-01-01,90,108,02-01-001-01 -
> >>>>>>01-01,123,139,02-03-001-02-01-06,98,117,01-03-018-01-01-03,123,140 ,
> >>>>>>,0%0A%0D%0A01-03-018-01-03-02,102,42,01-02-%
> >>>>>>0A007-01-01-03,101,74,01-06-008-01-03-01,117,93,01-09-015-01-03-01 ,
> >>>>>>108,120,01-06-008-01-03-01,117,156,01-03-018-01-03-02,104,178,,0%
> >>>>>>0A%0D%0A08-04-001-01-01-01,76,105,,0%0A%0D%0A>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>Courtesy of SignBank.org
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>7050a2c230a1609105e3eca585ea1d72 =
> >>>>>>7050a2c230a1609105e3eca585ea1d72
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>--
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>Jonathan & Yolaine Duncan
> >>>>>>>8-)  & ;-)
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
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> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
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>

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