Reflexions on wrist flexes and rotations
duncanjonathan at YAHOO.CA
Wed Jul 11 14:00:29 UTC 2007
I know that WOW doesn't end PALM UP. What I meant was suggestion a
different place to put the line in the flex movement symbol. I had
always been difficult for me to read because the line isn't beside the
wrist as I would've expect it to be. But the "Wrist Movement Symbols"
diagrams that Valerie posted has made it clearer.
Thanks for your comment
Charles Butler wrote:
> Jonathan wrote:
> Should be written with all the symbols as which wouldn't be a wrist
> flex at all but rather a rotation.
> This isn't the end position that is trying to be shown with a flex
> symbol. The hand moves down to a 45 degree angle not onto the PALM UP
> plan, think of shaking something off of one's hands, the hands stay
> facing the reader, the flex is actually from a straight angle to a 45
> degree angle. It truly does stay FACING THE READER not PALM UP.
> */Jonathan <duncanjonathan at yahoo.ca>/* wrote:
> Hi list,
> Wrist flexes and rotation have been difficult for me up to know.
> However the latest discussions here on the list have helped clear
> a lot
> of things up for me. Though some aspects still elude me. This is what
> I have come understand and please feel free to let me know if I am
> or you feel that I am wrong on any of these issues.
> /General rules/
> 1. Rotations have axis-lines around which the hand rotates. The
> axis-line goes through the middle finger of the hand. The hand
> does not travel around the axis-line as would a normal movement
> but rather rotates around it, the axis-line staying static in the
> center of the hand.
> 2. There are two type of axis-lines. The double-lined axis-line
> parallel to the wall plane for a hand that is in the wall plane.
> The single-lined axis-line is parallel to the floor plane for hand
> symbols that are in the floor plane.
> 3. The rotation arrow is always perpendicular to the axis-line. That
> is always around the axis-line.
> 4. Rotations with an arrowhead on the axis-line can travel up or down
> the axis line. Rotations cannot travel in any other direction.
> Static axis-lines do not have an arrowhead and do not travel in
> any direction whatsoever.
> 5. The rotation arrow can either represent the curve of the thumb
> movement around the axis-line or the curve of the baby finger
> movement around the axis-line. /*(I don't know how to distinguish
> the two, could someone please help)*/
> 6. A rotation ALWAYS involves a change of the palm facing if both the
> beginning and ending hands where to be written. It however NEVER
> changes from one plane to the other. Not only are the beginning
> and ending axis-lines are ALWAYS parallel, they are also ALWAYS
> lined up.
> /What is confusing about previous explanations/
> 1. As Adam has mentioned, _"Right. Which is where the confusion comes
> in. The definition of the rotation symbol is that the arm and hand
> are on the same line. The sign for wow is not."_ the axis-line of
> the hand and the axis-line of the are not always the same. In the
> previous explanations they are assumed to be the same . This is
> not the case for example if the hand is flexed 90 degrees from the
> arm. Contrary to Charles comment, though I didn´t grasp the last
> part of his comment, _"Then the definition is wrong. It should
> follow the ARM rotation always, that way the movement is
> consistent. The arm does not travel which the general travel
> implies." _ I think that being that we are interested mainly in
> the hand movement and not the arm movement, we should talk about
> the axis-line in reference to the hand not the arm.
> 2. I have yet to understand which rotations represent the baby finger
> and which represent the thumb and which should be used when. I see
> there is a reference to the Push-Pull Writing Rules in the chapter
> Axial Movement in the Lessons in SignWriting Textbook. But which
> pages are they on? Please help me on this one.
> *Wrist Flexes*
> /General rules
> 1. The line going through the middle finger is anchored at the middle
> of the wrist line (point of pivot) but describes an arc at the end
> of the middle finger.
> 2. The line through the middle finger is not drawn on the wrist flex
> symbol but rather a line cutting the wrist over which the wrist
> 3. Generally entails flexing the wrist. Sometimes a rotation of the
> wrist if it is already bent in regards to the arm.
> 4. If the wrist flex movement is in the same plane as the hand, there
> is no change in palm facing if the beginning and ending hands are
> written. If the wrist flex movement changes from one plane to the
> other there is change in palm facing.
> 5. The beginning and ending lines through the middle finger are NEVER
> parallel that is never along the same line. Both line ALWAYS have
> a common point at the middle of the wrist.
> /What is confusing about previous explanations/
> 1. What the line represents in the flex movement symbol. Before, I
> could never figure out which way to flop the hand. It seemed
> logical to me at the time to try and flop the hand around the
> line. Which sometimes made the sign nonsensical. Valerie wrote
> _"In Wrist Flexes, the wrist is cut by a line, which is the axis...so
> the line does not represent the forearm...it is an imaginary line
> cutting the wrist...I was wrong before..."_ I believe this means
> like cutting the wrist off the line separating the hand from the
> forearm. Yes makes perfect sense for "Yes-Yes". But some signs
> just don't make sense if this is the case.
> For example: If Yes-Yes is actually
> Then where the wrist line is not anywhere close to the wrist.
> Should be written with all the symbols as which wouldn't be a
> wrist flex
> at all but rather a rotation.
> It seems to me that it would make more sense if it was written as But
> we don't have this a wrist flex symbol. At least I don't think so.
> This is why it is so hard to define this line. It's mean one thing
> Yes-Yes sign but doesn't represent anything for the Wow sign
> except that
> the symbol is a wrist flex.
> Special cases*
> When there is a rotation and a wrist flex simultaneously.
> Could also be written but is much harder to read than just writing
> beginning and ending hands.
> Looking forward to all of your comments.
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