wrist flex versus rotation

[Adam Frost]

Right. Which is where the confusion comes in. The definition of the rotation symbol is that the arm and hand are on the same line. The sign for wow is not. Therefore it can not correctly use the rotation symbol even if the arm does rotate. So the only other options are to use the general traveling arrow or the wrist flex. But you are saying that it isn't a wrist flex, which mean we are only left with the general travel arrows.  

Adam
-----Original Message-----
From: "Charles Butler" <chazzer3332000 at yahoo.com>

Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2007 20:44:32 
To:sw-l at majordomo.valenciacc.edu
Subject: Re: [sw-l] wrist flex versus rotation


Her sign for WOW is a wrist flex precisely because the palm facing does not change, but at the same time, I watch my arms and they also turn in place, which is a rotation to me.  The arms don't travel, they turn.  

I now, thinking hard, see what she means.  If the hands were pointed straight forward, flat palms, they would only be flexing, like the sign for LET, Both hands come up and flex, but the arms don't move.

If you must have a write down on those palms, which happen to be facing each other, the arms actually rotate, which if one holds the hands as an angle one can see. As soon as the palms go flat, it LOOKS like a flex, but it actually is a ROTATION.  The palm facing does not change because the hand is facing perpendicular to the axis of movement.

argue

I would write this with rotating hands because the index fingers end up at a 45 degree angle as I sign it, which requires an arm rotation.

 <http://www.signbank.org/SignPuddle1.5/image.php?build=01-05-001-01-01-03,131,110,02-03-002-02-01-05,137,137,03-06-001-01-03-04,109,73,08-01-001-01-01-01,142,158,01-05-001-01-01-11,92,110,02-03-002-02-02-05,94,137,08-01-001-01-01-02,100,158,> 
wow
I feel that this writing is in error.
I can feel this sign, but if I paint a spot on the back of my wrist as if I were to sign "HAPPEN", I can see that spot that tells me that the arms have ROTATED, not that the wrists have flexed.   There is a definite ROTATION there, not simply wrist flexing because the hand is turned.  The arms have ROTATED.  That can be seen by a camera from above.  The arms have rotated, the wrist has not flexed at all.  


 <http://www.signbank.org/SignPuddle1.5/image.php?build=01-01-001-01-04-01,132,119,01-01-001-01-04-09,100,119,02-06-007-01-01-01,128,92,02-06-007-01-02-02,96,92,08-02-001-01-01-01,115,87,> 
happen
accidental
 <http://www.signbank.org/SignPuddle1.5/image.php?build=01-05-014-01-05-09,107,92,01-05-014-01-05-01,122,73,02-01-001-01-01-01,108,82,02-05-006-02-01-03,126,31,> 
fish


Here the wrist flexes.  But  the WOW sign does not FLEX the wrist, it actually ROTATES it.
Charles



Adam Frost <icemandeaf at gmail.com> wrote: I agree as well. I was just trying to get my brain to have a reason to be able to explain it. (The teacher in me, I guess.)

Adam

-----Original Message-----
From: "K.J. Boal" 

Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2007 11:29:25 
To:sw-l at majordomo.valenciacc.edu
Subject: RE: [sw-l] wrist flex versus rotation


I see what you mean, Adam; it's physically impossible to hold your arms and hands in that position and actually
flex your wrist; but I like the wrist-flex symbol for the movement because the palm facing isn't changing.
KJ




----------------
> From: signwriting at MAC.COM
> Subject: Re: [sw-l] wrist flex versus rotation
> Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2007 14:42:43 -0700
> To: sw-l at majordomo.valenciacc.edu
> 
> On Jul 6, 2007, at 2:29 PM, Adam Frost wrote:
> > I see what you mean. I was just wondering because I can bend my 
> > wrist so my hand goes from side to side and forward to back, but 
> > when I have my wrist bent forward like the Cherie's sign for wow, I 
> > can't bend my wrist side to side. My forearm rotates. I even tried 
> > holding my forearm so that it won't and I can't get the up down 
> > movement in the hand.
> >
> > Adam
> 
> I see. If that is the case, then we are seeing different signs. See 
> the attached. What do you see in these photos? This is a screen 
> capture of the two positions of the sign. In this picture, I see the 
> white palm facing Cherie's chest both in the beginning and ending 
> position. Am I wrong? Does her palm finish facing the floor? To me it 
> looks like her fingers are pointing down to the floor at the end, but 
> that is still a white palm towards her body...Do you see this as the 
> palms facing the floor? If so, then it is the movement like the sign 
> for BAD, instead of ARGUE ;-))
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 


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