Encyclopedia in American Sign Language

Valerie Sutton signwriting at MAC.COM
Sun Mar 11 14:17:37 UTC 2007

SignWriting List
March 11, 2007

Ahhh...that's what i thought...it looked like a comments page and not  
an article page...thanks for that tip, Steve!

That is a strange way to post comments to each other...but I am sure  
i will learn it!

Well....I am going back to working with SignPuddle 1.5 right now...I  
am adding instruction for the symbols right now...

I hope the rest of the world will realize that SignWriting was always  
free to use from its conception, for software development as well as  
for writing documents and books with it... That is why we all know  
each other...because it is out in the world free to use...

Thanks for your help -

Val ;-)


On Mar 11, 2007, at 7:03 AM, Steve Slevinski wrote:

> Hi Val,
> Normally, it would be fine to change what is written in a wiki,  
> however this is a comment page. People are posting comments and you  
> shouldn't edit those.
> All you need to do is write your comments above, below or between  
> other people's comments.
> Some comments start with an * (asterisk).  If you want your comment  
> on the same level, use the same number of asterisks.  If you are  
> replying to a comment, just add another asterisk.
> Since this is a comment page, you should also sign and date you  
> comment.
> -Steve
> Valerie Sutton wrote:
>> Pharos and everyone!
>> Just want to be sure you understand that SignWriting is free to  
>> use and is fully capable and fully free for use, as a translation  
>> and writing system for any signed language. I saw there were some  
>> comments on Wikipedia that need to be clarified, and of course I  
>> wanted to respond personally, but unfortunately, although I  
>> created a user name and password to post on Wikipedia, I simply  
>> cannot figure out how to post a response. If I click on Edit it  
>> looks like I would be changing other people's words? and that  
>> would not be proper...when all I want to do is comment to what was  
>> said...so I feel a little frustrated right now....
>> You are welcome to post this message for me on Wikipedia...as you  
>> did before...thanks for that! And I am also sending this to the  
>> SignWriting List, which anyone can join by the way!
>> To join the SignWriting List, go to:
>> http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist/
>> To clarify some misunderstandings in previous posts on Wikipedia...
>> SignWriting is free for anyone to use daily, and they do!  
>> SignWriting is used around the world by thousands of people, to  
>> write some 40 signed languages...It is not just for ASL!
>> SignWriting is used, for example in Belgium to write both Flemish  
>> Sign Language and French-Belgian Sign Language, in Germany, to  
>> write DGS, in Norway, to write NTS and so forth...so ASL is only  
>> one of many languages written freely and openly and without  
>> restriction around the world, using SignWriting symbols.
>> Plus our non-profit organization donates free SignWriting  
>> materials to classrooms with deaf students, if the teacher or  
>> administrators request the materials. And I print the books  
>> myself, and prepare the materials myself and ship them myself...it  
>> is a privilege for me to be able to share and give freely...
>> SignWriting has never been restricted to anyone, and you all are  
>> welcome to enter our web site for free right now, and start  
>> writing documents and dictionaries. Go to:
>> SignPuddle Online
>> http://www.SignBank.org/signpuddle
>> and scroll down and you will see flags for different countries.  
>> Click on a flag to start using dictionaries and writing your own  
>> documents in SignWriting.
>> And NO ONE owns any language...languages are free for everyone to  
>> use...otherwise they would not be used!
>> Writing systems are not languages themselves. Writing systems  
>> simply write languages that already exist. English was a spoken  
>> language long before it could be written...so the Roman Alphabet  
>> is not a language...it is an alphabet...that can be used to write  
>> languages such as Spanish and French too...and that is what  
>> SignWriting is like...it is an alphabet that can be used to write  
>> Danish Sign Language or ASL or other signed languages too...
>> SignWriting is a way to write body movement, and is not  
>> specifically for any one sign language. It just writes the way the  
>> body looks while we sign, and it can be applied to any signed  
>> language in the world, or gestures or body language too..and as  
>> you know, we can also write dance and sports...last year I wrote  
>> skateboard moves...they were cool!
>> Skateboard moves
>> http://www.movementwriting.org/sports/skateboarding/ollie/
>> A lot of people assume that SignWriting started by writing  
>> ASL...but that is not true! It was developed to write Danish Sign  
>> Language first, at the University of Copenhagen in 1974 and  
>> 1975....Later we started writing other signed languages. The first  
>> writers of ASL were ten native signing Deaf people who worked with  
>> me as a team in the 1980's...In 1988 we formed the Deaf Action  
>> Committee for SignWriting (the DAC). All our materials that are  
>> published are signed by or written by or edited by Deaf skilled  
>> ASL signers.
>> SignWriting does not change ASL...it preserves it by writing it  
>> down on paper. And I never personally write ASL unless it is from  
>> a videotape of a skilled ASL signer...I leave writing ASL directly  
>> to the skilled ASL signers...
>> We have close to 500 SignWriting PDF files you all can download  
>> freely on our web site...did you know that? This year we are  
>> coming out with several new publications, including several  
>> children's stories written in ASL, and possibly the book of John,  
>> from the Bible...we have John chapters 1, 2, 3 and 14 completed,  
>> ready for editing now...that is exciting!
>> And I believe the concept of writing or translating some  
>> encyclopedia or Wikipedia articles sounds like a great project to  
>> me! Maybe we can get some funding to give ASL authors and  
>> interpreters some part time employment...I hope so!
>> Our new software, SignPuddle 1.5, is coming out shortly and we  
>> will announce it as soon as it is ready around April 1st...We are  
>> displaying the new software at the CUNY Sign Language Linguistic  
>> Conference held here in La Jolla, California, March 29-31, and I  
>> am teaching a free SignWriting software workshop on April 1st to  
>> anyone who would like to attend...
>> If someone reading this on Wikipedia is attending the CUNY  
>> Conference anyway, and would like to attend the free SignWriting  
>> workshop on April 1st, contact me at:
>> Sutton at SignWriting.org
>> I look forward to meeting you!
>> Thanks for your patience with me not being able to post to  
>> Wikipedia...I hope to learn one of these days!
>> Val ;-)
>> ----------
>> On Mar 9, 2007, at 4:42 PM, Pharos wrote:
>>> Yes, we are hoping for a Wikipedia in written American Sign Language
>>> in SignWriting, as you say.  I agree with you that this this  
>>> would be
>>> a very historic development, and am gladdened at your enthusiasm for
>>> the idea.
>>> Your offer of directing funding toward developing the ASL  
>>> Wikipedia is
>>> very helpful, and will probably make approval much more likely  
>>> (an ASL
>>> Wikipedia was proposed once before but rejected).  The Wikimedia
>>> Foundation (which operates Wikipedia) probably cannot provide direct
>>> support (other than hosting it online, of course), but I'm sure they
>>> would be glad to help you in developing joint grants for the  
>>> project.
>>> I am only a volunteer editor, and not a member of Wikimedia's  
>>> Board or
>>> staff.  If you are interested in talking with higher-up people for
>>> grant purposes, I can direct you to the appropriate person.
>>> Wikipedia has encyclopedias in many different languages, including
>>> Chinese.  Developing a system to represent SignWriting would  
>>> probably
>>> not be a big problem.  It looks like you have a system at
>>> http://signwriting.org/forums/software/swml/swml01.html that would
>>> probably be appropriate for Wikipedia use.  We might even have a
>>> system for automatic translation between SignWriting and Stockoe,  
>>> for
>>> those used to that method.  We already have something similar on the
>>> Chinese Wikipedia, between "traditional Chinese" which is used in
>>> Taiwan and Singapore, and "simplified Chinese" which is used in
>>> mainland China.
>>> I have posted a summary of your statements to the proposal page.
>>> Thank you very much
>>> On 3/9/07, Valerie Sutton <signwriting at mac.com> wrote:
>>>> On Mar 9, 2007, at 2:00 PM, Pharos wrote:
>>>> > I just wanted to clear this up.  Wikipedia already has an  
>>>> article on
>>>> > SignWriting, at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SignWriting
>>>> >
>>>> > What is being proposed is an entirely new Wikipedia, covering  
>>>> all the
>>>> > topics any encyclopedia would, in American Sign Language, just as
>>>> > there are Wikipedias in French ( http://fr.wikipedia.org/ ) and
>>>> > Spanish ( http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/ ).
>>>> >
>>>> > Please comment on the proposal page and sign up there if you are
>>>> > interested in participating.  It will only be created if a  
>>>> certain
>>>> > number of people written sign language-users express interest.
>>>> > Thanks.
>>>> ---------------
>>>> Hello Pharos -
>>>> Are you asking us to write the Wikipedia in written American Sign
>>>> Language in SignWriting? We can do that, and I would vote for  
>>>> that...
>>>> Signing up for it would mean that someone who knows American Sign
>>>> Language can write the articles in written SignWriting...and there
>>>> are skilled people who can do that ...
>>>> We have new software too, SignPuddle 1.5, that can produce written
>>>> Sign Language Literature documents, and perhaps we can assist in
>>>> creating the web pages needed...Is that what you are talking about?
>>>> It is a huge job to translate a whole Wikipedia into any language,
>>>> but it can be done ... we could start with a small portion of it  
>>>> and
>>>> go from there...
>>>> We have a little funding for producing written Sign Language
>>>> literature right now, and we could apply that towards writing some
>>>> articles for an encyclopedia and use that as a springboard for  
>>>> doing
>>>> more work in the future...Does Wikipedia have funding to help us  
>>>> with
>>>> the translation process? Or perhaps we could write a grant  
>>>> together?
>>>> It would certainly be a very important historic event, to have an
>>>> entire encyclopedia written in the movements of American Sign  
>>>> Language!
>>>> I assume that Wikipedia can be written in Chinese and other
>>>> languages? So you are handling other written scripts other than the
>>>> Roman alphabet? You mention Spanish and French below, but those
>>>> languages use the same Roman alphabet used to write English, but  
>>>> our
>>>> written ASL uses SignWriting symbols, as you know.
>>>> SignPuddle software can write email in SignWriting and  
>>>> literature in
>>>> SignWriting...so we could work with your programmers to make sure
>>>> that our ASL encyclopedia would be something you can post with no
>>>> trouble...We are working towards the day when people can add their
>>>> own Sign Language literature on the web, so we could apply that to
>>>> Wikipedia someday...so that others can post their own SignWriting
>>>> corrections and comments just as they do right now with the Roman
>>>> alphabet in other languages...
>>>> So I say YES to the proposal if Wikipedia is interested...
>>>> I just went up on your web site on this link:
>>>> >> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/
>>>> >> Wikipedia_American_Sign_Language_2
>>>> I can see that SignWriting was discussed there...
>>>> I clicked on EDIT, but it looks like a huge job to do the  
>>>> editing and
>>>> I am on a deadline right now to finish our software by next  
>>>> week...so
>>>> I would be grateful if someone else could propose to use  
>>>> SignWriting
>>>> to write an American Sign Language Wikipedia?...it could bring
>>>> SignWriting users funding for doing the translation and writing  
>>>> work...
>>>> Perhaps in April I can add to the Wikipedia voting page above...
>>>> no matter what, please know we are interested...
>>>> And i hope someone on the SignWriting List can help too...go to the
>>>> above web page and click on the word EDIT in the corner to make  
>>>> your
>>>> statement that we could write Wikipedia in American Sign Language
>>>> using SignWriting...
>>>> Many thanks!
>>>> Val ;-)
>>>> ---------
>>>> >
>>>> > On 3/9/07, Valerie Sutton <signwriting at mac.com> wrote:
>>>> >> SignWriting List
>>>> >> March 9, 2007
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Can anyone write an article about SignWriting for Wikipedia's  
>>>> new
>>>> >> section on American Sign Language?...Here is a message I just
>>>> >> received:
>>>> >>
>>>> >> --------
>>>> >>
>>>> >> From: pharosofalexandria at gmail.com
>>>> >>         Subject:        Encyclopedia in American Sign Language
>>>> >>         Date:   March 9, 2007 1:28:29 PM PST
>>>> >>         To:       Sutton at SignWriting.org
>>>> >>
>>>> >> You may be familiar with Wikipedia, the free volunteer-written
>>>> >> encyclopedia, which exists in many languages.  The English  
>>>> Wikipedia
>>>> >> is at http://en.wikipedia.org/
>>>> >>
>>>> >> There is currently a proposal for a Wikipedia in American Sign
>>>> >> Language, and I thought that the members of the SignWriting  
>>>> community
>>>> >> should be aware of this.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> The proposal is here:
>>>> >> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/
>>>> >> Wikipedia_American_Sign_Language_2
>>>> >>
>>>> >> It would be great if you could share this information on  
>>>> SignWriting
>>>> >> forums and mailing lists, and please comment at the proposal  
>>>> page
>>>> >> (just click "edit").
>>>> >>
>>>> >> I am not a sign language user myself, but I thought I could  
>>>> help in
>>>> >> informing you of this proposal.  Feel free to ask me if you  
>>>> have any
>>>> >> general questions relating to what Wikipedia is or how it works.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Thank you
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>

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