SignWriting on OmegaWiki ;-)

Jonathan duncanjonathan at YAHOO.CA
Tue May 1 03:34:17 UTC 2007

    I was wanting to put up sample of what I was trying to explain.  But
I don't know where you have the IMWA png files from SignText 1.0.  Looks
like it got cleaned up with the coming of SignPuddle 2.0.


Jonathan wrote:
> Valerie Sutton wrote:
>> SignWriting List
>> April 29, 2007
>> So at least we are starting the process on our own site...but in
>> vertical columns...
>> Regarding MediaWiki....
>> No need for PDF...that was just one throw that out ;-))
>> It sounds like that SWML-S then, would be the answer from what you
>> say below...
> Val, Steve and Gerard,
>     Sounds to me like SWML-S or the new STML would fit the needs
> well.  One option to display any of these XML formats would to be use
> an XML Stylesheet.  I transforms the XML at the browser level and
> convert it to HTML to show the symbols each in their respective
> places.  I had posted some of these quite a while back.
>     For it to work, you would need:
>    1. The whole IMWA in png in one directory to get the symbols from
>       (This can be anywhere on the Internet)
>    2. Have the xslt file on the same server as the XML file (I tried
>       putting it on another server but it didn't work for me,  Maybe
>       somebody else knows a workaround for this one)
>    3. Have the following reference in the XML file to the stylesheet.
>       <?xml-stylesheet type="text/xsl" href="swml.xslt"?>
>    4. A web Browser that can handle XML transforms. (Both Firefox and
>       Internet Explorer handle these I don't know about the others)
> Things that would need to be done to make the stylesheet work nicely.
>    1. Get the SignWriting to display properly.  Currently, the signs
>       have a lot of space between them.  Some adjustment may have to
>       be made for the horizontal positioning as well.
>    2. Split the Output into several columns using a Table and <td>
>       tags every so many signs.
>   3.
>    4. Whatever other programming is needed to pass the XML file to the
>       SignPuddle and back (I have a stylesheet that can send reopen
>       the XML with the canvas page on the SignPuddle.  Though this may
>       not be the most efficient way of doing it)
> I hope to have time put a  small demonstrations together to show you
> what I mean.
> Anyways, first, I wanted to hear what the three of you, and everybody
> else on the list of course think of this possible solution.
> Jonathan
>> or whatever...time will tell what will be best!
>> We will work out all those licenses to make everyone feel good about
>> the licenses we choose...I want to thank Pharos for a description of
>> all the licenses too! So I hope to read that soon...
>> Thank you so much for your advice and support -
>> Yes...we will get there!
>> Val ;-)
>> --------------
>> On Apr 29, 2007, at 11:46 AM, GerardM wrote:
>>> OmegaWiki exists in two planes; there is the standard MediaWiki
>>> functionality. This is the functionality that you see in the
>>> portals. And there is an extension to MediaWiki that is specific to
>>> OmegaWiki. This is the functionality that allows us to work on
>>> lexical, terminological and ontological information it allows us to
>>> represent database information in many user interfaces.
>>> Storing discrete information is probably easiest done in the
>>> "Wikidata" functionality. Storing text information that is in a
>>> fixed, unmutable format in MediaWiki is quite contrary to the core
>>> ideas of what a Wiki stands for. In a Wiki an article is started by
>>> someone and someone else takes it further and in the process may
>>> become quite different from the original incarnation. This means
>>> that having the content in a PDF kinda way is not really feasible.
>>> When the information of an article is stored in a XML format, the
>>> data is not stored in a fixed way. It therefore allows people to get
>>> it, change it and save it. MediaWiki has a history mechanism that
>>> allows for saving changes.
>>> When Steve mentions copyrights, it is important to realise that the
>>> copyright stays with the copyright holder. The copyright holder can
>>> extend a license to someone else and also provide the same data or
>>> programming under many licenses.  The key thing to appreciate is
>>> what is it that you aim to achieve. My understanding is that you aim
>>> to emancipate the sign languages and allow the deaf to register
>>> their own history and culture in their own language. This means to
>>> me that the more functionality allows for the use of sign languages
>>> exists, the better your aims will be achieved.
>>> There are key technologies  to consider. Valerie holds the copyright
>>> to the characters. She wants everyone without restrictions to be
>>> able to use the SignWriting characters. The SignPuddle software and
>>> much of the other software is freely available for all to have. It
>>> however does not state license information and consequently many
>>> people who are aware of licenses are hesitant to use it. There are
>>> licenses specific to fonts, there are licenses specific to software,
>>> there are licenses specific to data and, database designs are
>>> licensed too typically under a software license.
>>> When MediaWiki is to be adapted to use SignWriting, there will be a
>>> need to do some research to understand what it is that needs doing.
>>> This does not imply a necessity for UNICODE. It implies careful
>>> analysis. I agree with Steve that there will be many ways to skin
>>> this cat however, what is considered the MediaWiki functionality has
>>> to be there in order for it to be a success.
>>> MediaWiki is GPL licensed. This has particular implications, one of
>>> them is that when you get GPL licensed software you are Free to use
>>> it and change it but you are not free to change the license of the
>>> changed product. All in all licenses are not easy and they are
>>> certainly not something that you want to rush into.
>>> First and foremost is, what is it that you want to achieve and how
>>> do you achieve these things best. This is not something to rush. Yes
>>> we can have Wikipedias in SignWriting, but to get there we will have
>>> to take time to consider the requirements carefully.
>>> Thanks,
>>>     GerardM
>>> On 4/29/07, Valerie Sutton < signwriting at> wrote:SignWriting
>>> List
>>> April 29, 2007
>>> On Apr 29, 2007, at 9:12 AM, Steve Slevinski wrote:
>>> > Hi Val,
>>> >
>>> > This would be an easy extension for any website.  Upload a zip file
>>> > of the column images or download a zip file.  We'd need a server
>>> > side and the AJAX viewer.  We could create add-ons for OmegaWiki,
>>> > using a copyright compliant license.  We could also make the viewer
>>> > a free download for other websites to help promote the use of
>>> > SignWriting.
>>> >
>>> > Write in SignPuddle, export the columns as a zip.  Upload the zip
>>> > file to the website.  We could also include the SWML in the zip.
>>> > Very easy to use for now and for later when the SWML is used
>>> directly.
>>> >
>>> > I'm rewriting SWML into STML for the new SignText.  It will include
>>> > PDFs as well.  Does any have the software list for splitting and
>>> > combining PDFs.  The Mac and the PC are both unique.
>>> >
>>> > Regards,
>>> > -Steve
>>> --------------
>>> Hi Steve!
>>> This sounds amazing and I look forward to Gerard's communication
>>> about this...
>>> It will be a real boon for Sign Languages around the world to have
>>> these features to use quickly on other web sites...thank you, Steve!
>>> Regarding the question about splitting and combining PDFs...obviously
>>> the best solution someday, is to have the actual document inside
>>> SignText, export with page breaks, so that the page breaks are a part
>>> of the PDF created from the beginning...the SignText PDF should
>>> someday be able to create multiple-paged-PDFs from the start,
>>> eliminating the need for combining PDFs...
>>> Until that day comes, the best program to use, which is for both Mac
>>> and PC, is the Adobe Acrobat Professional program, which is the way
>>> most people edit and combine PDFs. In Acrobat Professional you can do
>>> so much...including changing actual text and graphics, and you can
>>> insert, delete, replace pages in a variety of formats and so forth...
>>> As far as free programs that do that...there are hundreds it seems...
>>> and there are source code for some of these programs free on the web...
>>> For example...
>>> here is the source code for one of them on the Macintosh:
>>> and here is one on the PC:
>>> Val ;-)
> -- 
> Jonathan & Yolaine Duncan
> 8-)  & ;-)


Jonathan & Yolaine Duncan
8-)  & ;-)

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