Sign Names in SignWriting ;-)
K.J. Boal
kjoanne403 at HOTMAIL.COM
Wed May 2 02:08:51 UTC 2007
>From: "Valerie Sutton" <signwriting at MAC.COM>
>Reply-To: sw-l at majordomo.valenciacc.edu
>To: sw-l at majordomo.valenciacc.edu
>Subject: Re: [sw-l] Sign Names in SignWriting ;-)
>Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 14:16:43 -0700
>
>SignWriting List
>May 1, 2007
>
>Thanks, Charles, for this message...I appreciate it...and I understand
>too...
>
>I sure wish we all could have discussions together in the same room
>together...it would be easier than email!
Me too! :-)
>
>I bet I did not explain things well myself...email is hard to write...and
>we all write so quickly to each other...
>
>And thanks for mentioning the arm lines...I promise I will try to answer
>your questions about the arm lines as soon as I can...
I'm looking forward to that!
>
>And thanks to Adam and Anny too...we are all working together and that is
>good for spellings...
>
>Sign Names actually are not always so easy to write, as we are finding
>out!
>
>And Kelly Jo...please know that your input on your Sign Name is very
>important...;-)
Thanks Val... I haven't been on the computer all day, so I didn't see
anyone's messages until just now... as you can see, I'm not being shy about
expressing my opinion! (It is my name, after all...) ;-) I'll be posting
another attempt of my own soon.
KJ
>
>Val ;-)
>
>
>
>On May 1, 2007, at 1:41 PM, Charles Butler wrote:
>
>>I am sorry to have come across as aggressive. I am also trying to
>>understand how signs on arms are supposed to be written using the
>>keyboard as it presently stands without error.
>>
>>I, apparently, misunderstood both the name sign and the feel for the
>>sign, and for that I apologize.
>>
>>I am looking at my own arms, and working with the system as it presently
>>exists, and trying to extrapolate. Apparently I did not express myself
>>well.
>>
>>Again, I apologize.
>>
>>Charles Butler Neto
>>
>>
>>Anne-Claude Prélaz Girod <acpg at vtxnet.ch> wrote: Charles
>>wow! this message is quite agressive!
>>
>>I don't understand...
>>everyone is free to write in english (or in any other language) making
>>errors if that's what they want ....
>>BUT if you try to write in a correct english... you've got to follow
>>rules...( orthographic rules, grammatical rules, etc...)
>>
>>(I'm probably making lots of errors writing this message, and I don't
>>care, because I don't expect anyone to correct me.... because it's not
>>the aim of this message.... hope you get what I mean)... it's not the
>>same when I ask a question on sign notation on this list!!!
>>I expect people to correct me if I'm making errors... I'm here to learn!
>>
>>In her message Val just explained how you're supposed to write this sign
>>name in SignWriting... what's wrong with this??
>>
>>you can chose to write signs in a wrong mode if you feel that it feels
>>better.... but ... it wil be wrong. If that's the way you want it...
>>FINE!
>>why being so agressive with people who try to increase their writing
>>skills... and write correctly some difficult signs??
>>
>>just my 2 cents
>>
>>Anny
>>Le 1 mai 07 à 17:56, Charles Butler a écrit :
>>
>>>Where is there room for style and feel?
>>>
>>>>From a feeling point of view, her name sign looks like the K is resting
>>>on the arm, and then the J hand feels as if it goes straight down and
>>>then turns toward the chest.
>>>
>>>If one were to take the arm away, it is not produced the same way, as
>>>that becomes fingerspelling with the J upright and then turning down.
>>>
>>>With the arm, the production changes appearance as a brush of the bottom
>>>of the little finger against the arm, which does not feel like PALM Down
>>>but simply straight down.
>>>
>>>The exact palm facing may be palm down, but that is not how it "feels".
>>>It "feels" like the K is upright and the J is pointing downward, and it
>>>is elegantly written in a shorthand kind of way. The arrowhead would
>>>change to a single line with the arrow moving toward one and up, but the
>>>feel is not Parallel to the Arm, but straight down.
>>>
>>>Doesn't the user of the name have the right to put any Style and Feel
>>>into how they produce a sign? One can choose whether thumb or little
>>>finger is being moved, why not which orientation is the right "feel" for
>>>the sign?
>>>
>>>
>>>Valerie Sutton <signwriting at MAC.COM> wrote: Stefan is correct,
>>>Charles...This sign name for Kelly Jo needs to be
>>>discussed a little...
>>>
>>>I would probably write it this way:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Let's discuss this original writing:
>>>
>>>
>>>I certainly can see why this was hard to write! and I also understand
>>>that we need to review the Rotation symbols for everyone's sake...
>>>
>>>
>>>First look at the I hand...it is in this position...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>That is just physically very hard to do!
>>>
>>>
>>>And the Rotation Symbol ....
>>>
>>>This symbols means the forearm is parallel with the Front Wall and
>>>the thumb rotates back towards the chest:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>The way we write the letter KJ without the arm is this way:
>>>
>>>
>>>The J hand starts with the finger up, and then the arm moves to be
>>>parallel with the Floor and the Rotation itself is down and around...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>So this is one suggestion:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>There are other ways too I am sure...we just need to find a better
>>>way with a correct Rotation Symbol and Palm Facing...
>>>
>>>
>>>Val ;-)
>>>
>>>--------
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>On May 1, 2007, at 5:48 AM, Charles Butler wrote:
>>>
>>> > I find this easy to read, the brush contact is the equivalent of a
>>> > contact star, and the movement is placed for reading convenience
>>> > below the arm line. That's how I would write an ASL "J" that
>>> > brushed the arm, else the movement would put the handshape too far
>>> > visually from the arm.
>>> >
>>> > Stefan Wöhrmann wrote:
>>> > Hi Kelly,
>>> >
>>> > well - can you describe how to sign your signname?
>>> >
>>> > <463177574000000>
>>> >
>>> > For some reason I do not know.
>>> >
>>> > First part no problem K-hand touches left lower arm ...
>>> >
>>> > your rotation arrow describes a movement of the right thumb, right
>>> > lower arm above or below the I-hand ? Now brush contact of the
>>> > little finger – lower arm above the hand ? hm --
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Stefan ;-)
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
>>> > Von: owner-sw-l at majordomo.valenciacc.edu [mailto:owner-sw-
>>> > l at majordomo.valenciacc.edu] Im Auftrag von K.J. Boal
>>> > Gesendet: Dienstag, 1. Mai 2007 03:20
>>> > An: sw-l at majordomo.valenciacc.edu
>>> > Betreff: RE: AW: [sw-l] Sign Names in SignWriting ;-)
>>> >
>>> > Mine looks right!
>>> > KJ
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > >From: "Stefan Wöhrmann"
>>> > >Reply-To: sw-l at majordomo.valenciacc.edu
>>> > >To: sw-l at majordomo.valenciacc.edu
>>> > >Subject: AW: [sw-l] Sign Names in SignWriting ;-)
>>> > >Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 00:19:09 +0200
>>> > >
>>> > >OK - attached you find the first snapshot of a table showing only
>>> > the names
>>> > >of the participants and their signnames - the way I understood
>>> > them, or got
>>> > >them ... ?
>>> > >
>>> > >If everything is ok - if there is no spelling problem I will go
>>> > forward to
>>> > >create a set of TT-Font symbols of these
>>> > >
>>> > >Next message will show the second part of the group
>>> > >
>>> > >(according the rule - one attachment with one message)
>>> > >
>>> > >Stefan ;-)
>>> > >
>>> > >-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
>>> > >Von: owner-sw-l at majordomo.valenciacc.edu
>>> > >[mailto:owner-sw-l at majordomo.valenciacc.edu] Im Auftrag von
>>> > Valerie Sutton
>>> > >Gesendet: Montag, 30. April 2007 23:41
>>> > >An: sw-l at majordomo.valenciacc.edu
>>> > >Betreff: [sw-l] Sign Names in SignWriting ;-)
>>> > >
>>> > >SignWriting List
>>> > >April 30, 2007
>>> > >
>>> > >Stefan -
>>> > >Can you show us the sign names that you do have written already, and
>>> > >post them to the List? Then we all can have fun looking at them and
>>> > >checking them ;-)
>>> > >
>>> > >So go right ahead and post them to the List and then we can discuss
>>> > >reading everyone's names together to see if we understand the
>>> > >SignWriting...
>>> > >
>>> > >Thanks for doing this, Stefan...
>>> > >
>>> > >Val ;-)
>>> > >
>>> > >----------
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >On Apr 30, 2007, at 1:45 PM, Stefan Wöhrmann wrote:
>>> > >
>>> > > > Hello Jonathan,
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > > thanks for your kind words ...
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > > well I finished a great table of all the people who showed
>>> > interest
>>> > > > in the handwriting course. – smile –
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > > What is missing that we started to write our signnames by hand.
>>>My
>>> > > > idea has been to offer to you a TT Font showing your handwriting
>>> > > > and the computerprogram – spelling as you can get with
>>> > SignPuddle –
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > > Unfortunately we did never come so far to discuss our handwriting
>>> > > > of our signnames. Since it takes me quite a time to create the
>>>TT-
>>> > > > Font I really would prefer to do this job on a basis that the
>>> > > > spelling of the signnames are checked by Valerie –
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > > What do you think ?
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > > Nice to read that you are still interested in this job which
>>> > > > already took quite a portion of time and concentration – smile
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > > All the best
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > > Stefan ;-)
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > > Von: owner-sw-l at majordomo.valenciacc.edu [mailto:owner-sw-
>>> > > > l at majordomo.valenciacc.edu] Im Auftrag von Jonathan
>>> > > > Gesendet: Montag, 30. April 2007 21:07
>>> > > > An: sw-l at majordomo.valenciacc.edu
>>> > > > Betreff: [sw-l] Welcome back Stefan
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > > Welcome back Stefan!!!
>>> > > >
>>> > > > P.S. Did you finish the Sign names fonts you were working on? Or
>>> > > > did that get put on the back burner now that we aren't currently
>>> > > > any lessons on the list?
>>> > > >
>>> > > > Jonathan
>>> > > >
>>> > > > Stefan Wöhrmann wrote:
>>> > > >
>>> > > > Hi Valerie, Cherie and listmembers –
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > > well I am back online – smile –
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > > You folks have been so incredible active! Too many messages – so
>>> > > > that I will need some time to catch up with what is discussed ...
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > > Looking at your video Cherie – I would write it this way
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > > All the best
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > > Stefan
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > > Von: owner-sw-l at majordomo.valenciacc.edu [mailto:owner-sw-
>>> > > > l at majordomo.valenciacc.edu] Im Auftrag von Cherie Wren
>>> > > > Gesendet: Samstag, 28. April 2007 16:52
>>> > > > An: sw-l at majordomo.valenciacc.edu
>>> > > > Betreff: Re: [sw-l] Shurley 4
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > > I always have troubles with the rotations... that is my signing,
>>> > > > not a transcription. The two 'baby x's facing each other, then
>>> > the
>>> > > > right hand twists down twice and the left hand twists up twice
>>> > > > while the palms continue to face each other-- best way I can
>>> > > > describe it in words. Here is a clip.
>>> > > >
>>> > > > ----- Original Message ----
>>> > > > From: "adam at frostvillage.com"
>>> > > > To: sw-l at majordomo.valenciacc.edu
>>> > > > Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 1:05:09 AM
>>> > > > Subject: RE: [sw-l] Shurley 4
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > > Cherie,
>>> > > >
>>> > > > I was just reading your jingle. Very interesting. :-) Very well
>>> > > > written too. They only sign that I had a problem with was (I am
>>> > > > guessing) modify. The way that it was written is the same
>>>movement
>>> > > > that would be for a vertical "dead" or "opening the right door
>>> > > > while closing the left door." I took me a few tries of signing it
>>> > > > to see what you were saying. I think that the movement for modify
>>> > > > (at least the way I sign it) is the same as signing class except
>>> > > > the left hand goes the opposite way. I don't know if I am right
>>>in
>>> > > > my movement writing, but I was thinking that the movement was
>>> > > > better written this way. But if you are transcribing and the
>>> > person
>>> > > > signed it the way I mentioned before, then keep it. :-)
>>> > > >
>>> > > > Adam
>>> > > >
>>> > > > PS I'll try to get a clip of my signing the two movements as a
>>> > > > picture is worth a thousand words.
>>> > > >
>>> > > > Load message into SignText
>>> > > >
>>> > > > Courtesy of SignBank.org
>>> > > >
>>> > > > 337e55242c3367ad66f00b5c9bd745bb =
>>> > 337e55242c3367ad66f00b5c9bd745bb
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > > Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
>>> > > > Check out new cars at Yahoo! Autos.
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > > --
>>> > > >
>>> > > > Jonathan & Yolaine Duncan
>>> > > > 8-) & ;-)
>>> > > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >Val ;-)
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >Valerie Sutton
>>> > >Sutton at SignWriting.org
>>> > >
>>> > >1. SignWriting
>>> > >Read & Write Sign Languages
>>> > >http://www.SignWriting.org
>>> > >
>>> > >2. SignBank
>>> > >Create Sign Language Databases
>>> > >http://www.SignBank.org
>>> > >
>>> > >3. SignPuddle
>>> > >Online Sign Language Community
>>> > >http://www.SignBank.org/signpuddle
>>> > >
>>> > >4. SignWriting List
>>> > >Technical Support: Ask questions to the List
>>> > >http://www.SignWriting.org/forums/swlist
>>> > >
>>> > >5. DanceWriting
>>> > >Read & Write Dance Movement
>>> > >http://www.DanceWriting.org
>>> > >
>>> > >6. MovementWriting
>>> > >Read & Write All Body Movement
>>> > >http://www.MovementWriting.org
>>> > >
>>> > >7. SymbolBank
>>> > >International Movement Writing Alphabet
>>> > >http://www.MovementWriting.org/symbolbank
>>> > >
>>> > >8. Non-profit Organization
>>> > >Center for Sutton Movement Writing
>>> > >http://www.SignWriting.org/forums/sponsors
>>> > >
>>> > >SignWriting Literature Project
>>> > >The DAC, Deaf Action Committee
>>> > >Center For Sutton Movement Writing
>>> > >an educational nonprofit organization
>>> > >P.O. Box 517, La Jolla, CA, 92038, USA
>>> > >tel 858-456-0098 fax 858-456-0020
>>> > >D-Link Videophone: 66.27.57.178
>>> > >Skype Name: valeriesutton
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > ><< tableofparticipantshandwritingcoursenamesandsignnames1.gif >>
>>> >
>>> > _________________________________________________________________
>>> > Win a webcam! Nominate your friend’s Windows Live Space in the
>>> > Windows Live
>>> > Spaces Sweetest Space Contest and you both could win!
>>> > http://www.microsoft.com/canada/home/contests/sweetestspace/
>>> > default.aspx
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Anne-Claude Prélaz Girod
>>ruelle des chambres chaudes 1
>>1271 Givrins
>>Tel ++41/22.362.52.37
>>Fax ++41/22.362.52.66
>>mail: acpg at vtxnet.ch
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
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