ISWA Thumb Standardization?

Sat Nov 17 23:31:06 UTC 2007

SignWriting List
November 17, 2007

Hello Stefan!
Thank you for your opinion. As you know, the Parkhurst textbook  
changed the thumbs so that all the thumbs to the side are like the L  
Handshape...this is what they did in their textbook, as you know:

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....so they changed the 3 Handshape and the 5 Handshape to have a  
straight line to the side, and I assumed that you were following  
their thumbs...but I just looked at your wonderful textbook "the  
SignWriting Handbook", and I see you chose to teach the original  
Sutton relaxed thumbs afterall... ;-))

If you had chosen the Parkhurst thumbs that would have been ok  
too....They are all readable...

Both have a validity, and when we write by hand, obviously such  
details aren't even noticed...we are just talking about the symbols  
we use to publish documents with ;-)

If we were to use the Parkhurst thumbs, then my Lessons in  
SignWriting textbook would have this slight difference...most people  
wouldn't even notice ;-) In time I hope to write a third edition of  
the Lessons in SignWriting Textbook anyway...

So if our books, Stefan, do not match the ISWA 2008 one hundred  
percent, that is not bad either...our two books are not the same as  
the Parkhurst book...so you can see there will always be differences  
between writers...

it just shows that writing some symbols have variations, by hand and  
by computer...

But it is nice to know your opinion...Thank you for that! And no  
decision has been made yet...this would be a large job for me to  
change all the thumbs symbol by symbol...

As far as my "finishing" the ISWA hands...what I meant was...I hope  
to finish the ISWA Handshapes that people have asked me for, to  
date....The ISWA 2008 will be released in January officially, for  
computer programmers to use for their software, and it will include  
the Ethiopian handshapes, that are not at this moment, in SignPuddle,  
but once the ISWA 2008 is installed, those handshapes will be on the  
web for the Ethiopians and everyone to use as needed.

There are literally hundreds of other handshapes that could be  
included, but oh my goodness...the human hand is amazing...so I am  
only adding those requested (that I can remember)...there are quite a  
lot of new ones asked for besides the Ethiopian Handshapes...several  
from other signed languages as well...and when they are all in there,  
there will always be another request I am sure ...so that will have  
to wait until the ISWA 2010 ;-))

So if you found another handshape you need, better give it to me now!

Val ;-)

------------

On Nov 17, 2007, at 2:53 PM, Stefan W?hrmann wrote:

> Hi Valerie,
>
> after some hours of video transcription I can tell you that I feel  
> much more
> comfortable if you would leave it as it is now. May be that it does  
> not
> count to be able to pick this or that variation - but as the scribe  
> I can
> tell that it feels different to write it this way or that way.
> The L - hand is perfect with this thumb to the side and the 3 hand  
> feels
> better with this relaxed thumb --
> ...ok you said that you are going to  f i ni s h   (???!!!) the  
> handshapes
> in the ISWA...
>
> Hopefully you succeed not to change anything in the order that is  
> needed for
> the spelling so far - smile ( remember the tongue symbols??)
>
> 	I'll keep my fingers crossed.
>
> I guess that there are still some handshapes needed afterwards -  
> smile -
> (It happened to me yesterday that I was confronted with a very  
> complicated
> handshape you would hardly believe people can do things like this  
> with their
> fingers ... hm)
>
> All the best
>
> Stefan ;-)
>
>
> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: sw-l-bounces at majordomo.valenciacc.edu
> [mailto:sw-l-bounces at majordomo.valenciacc.edu] Im Auftrag von  
> Valerie Sutton
> Gesendet: Samstag, 17. November 2007 23:03
> An: SignWriting List
> Cc: Pennacchi Barbara
> Betreff: {Quarantine} [sw-l] ISWA Thumb Standardization?
>
> SignWriting List
> November 17, 2007
>
> Dear SW List members -
>
> This coming week is a holiday week here in the US...we celebrate
> Thanksgiving Day, on November 22nd. It is a big feast where we all
> eat way too much....but say "thank you" for all our blessings...
>
> And truly, I feel blessed to have so many friends to work with, on
> the SignWriting List...so a big THANK YOU to all of you ;-)
>
> So I am going to take the next week to try to finish the handshapes
> in the ISWA...but I have one question for you...
>
> When fingers or thumbs are at an angle, they are written with a
> diagonal line that matches the way it looks in real life... (see
> attached)
>
> And if the thumb is stretched very hard to the side, it is oftentimes
> written with a straight line to the side...
>
> People vary with their styles of signing, and also some hands cannot
> stretch their thumbs completely side anyway...
>
> Over the years, the symbols that have a thumb to the side have been
> inconsistent..sometimes the line is at an angle showing a more
> relaxed thumb to the side, and other times we write it straight side,
> like in the L hand...this never bothered me personally. But it has
> bothered some other people and they have told me...
>
> When the thumb is touching another finger, it has to be at an angle
> to reach that other finger, but when the thumb is totally by itself
> to the side, it could be either straight or at an angle and it will
> be read ok...
>
> So my question is...do you want me to make all the thumbs to the side
> like the L Handshape? That would mean that the 3 Handshape would have
> a straight line to the side rather than the relaxed angle it has
> right now...
>
> I don't care myself, and if we leave it as it is, it is correct and
> readable I feel...
>
> On the other hand, it can't hurt to have them consistent with the L
> handshape...
>
> If we decide to make this change to be consistent, it may take me
> some time to go in and change all the handshapes with the relaxed
> thumbs, but at least if you can tell me your opinions now, I will
> know what kind of work is before me ;-)
>
> Look at this chart...what is your opinion? Should the 3 Hand have a
> thumb line like the L hand?
>
> Val ;-)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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