Handwriting

Tue Dec 9 03:13:33 UTC 2008

Hi Stefan and everyone,

    Stefan, you are honest to share your experience with us.  Thank you very much.

    I am looking foward to getting your new second book.

    Hand waving

    André
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Stefan Wöhrmann 
  To: 'SignWriting List' 
  Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 4:31 PM
  Subject: AW: [sw-l] Handwriting

  Hi Stuart, 

  thank you very much for your comment.  I would like to affirm that I go along with your thoughts. One problem - I see - we would not be good teachers if we think to write by hand is an easy to accomplish task for children. No this is not true.  SignWriting by hand is difficult and it takes many many hours of practice and a teacher who enables them to keep motivated. It is time consuming and slow - and in a surrounding where everything and all is oriented towards spoken languge you would expect a child to develop higher skills in an area if there are no adults who really understand ... who appreciate ... 

  And what   you suggest is a brilliant idea - we need to compare the symbols as they are printed with noble software - and what they look like if written by hand. That is the reason Valerie that I am so interested in the  first handwritten documents - .. smile ... just to compare the way other handwriters tried to find their way to write circular movements, hands parallel to the floor, .... smile 

  Attached another handwritten document of a SignWriting enthusiast - smile - next to a railway-track

  All the best

  Stefan ;-)

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  Von: sw-l-bounces at majordomo.valenciacc.edu [mailto:sw-l-bounces at majordomo.valenciacc.edu] Im Auftrag von Stuart Thiessen
  Gesendet: Montag, 8. Dezember 2008 18:06
  An: SignWriting List
  Betreff: Re: [sw-l] Handwriting

  Valerie, I understand your point about learning to handprint before doing cursive, etc.

  But I still believe that one of the barriers to acceptance of SignWriting by some people is the fact that it appears to be slow to write by hand. I know that there is a long history of writing by hand before the various programs that we have today. My point simply is that the information that people have now is focused on the computer program which is a very important element. But also there is a very important element of having a handwritten form that is simpler than the printed form and more easily written.

  When people can see both styles of writing (printed and written), then that will open up new arguments for the usefulness of SignWriting in everyday life.

  So, I know the ISWA has been your priority for now, and it is an important priority. And more is still going on that. This is just something that will need to be resolved at some point.

  One suggestion I have is that maybe at some point you introduce handwritten forms for each of the ISWA symbols. So a person can look up an ISWA symbol and see both the printed form and the handwritten form. So as they practice on the computer or on a piece of paper, they can learn to use and read the system both ways.

  Hebrew, for example, has the same alphabet, but the exact form of the letter varies depending on which written form of Hebrew you use (Cursive, Rashi, or the printed form). (See the chart at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebrew_alphabet).

  Like you've said before, it may be that we will have different "fonts" or writing styles for SignWriting, but I think it will encourage people to also write by hand if there is a way to write it simply. Then they start doing grocery lists and quick notes to family and class notes and eventually it becomes a part of their everyday handwriting strategies.

  I admit for myself that I rarely handwrite SignWriting because the printed symbols just take longer to handwrite. When I do SignWriting, it is usually only when I use SignPuddle. I would prefer to handwrite more, but I find my motivation is lower when I have to invent my own ways of writing the printed forms faster. So when the time comes to show handwriting, I'm less likely to convince them on that front.

  Just my thoughts.

  Stuart

  On Dec 8, 2008, at 10:35 , Valerie Sutton wrote:

  SignWriting List

  December 8, 2008

  Hello Andre -

  In a SignWriting curriculum, for children, I would put learning SW Handwriting in the third year...

  Just as it explains on these web pages:

  http://www.signwriting.org/lessons/cursive/curs003.html

  and

  http://www.signwriting.org/lessons/cursive/curs004.html

  In any written form, writing in a "faster cursive style" takes skill. Plus SignWriting does not have the documentation ready for teaching formal SW Handwriting...

  Therefore, when we were young children learning to write English characters, we did not start by learning English cursive-handwriting...we started with hand-printing each English character carefully, writing them in rows and rows until we became skilled...

  Then, after learning how to write in this perfect hand-printing style, after around the second grade...for me it was in the third grade...I started to learn to write real handwriting in school (for English)...so based on that experience, I suggest that SW handprinting should be taught the first two years of a SignWriting curriculum, and the SW handwriting starts around the third year in school...

  Stefan has some experience with this...His student, Eduard, who is writing in the picture on the front page of our web site, is a skilled SignWriting student, having been in Stefan's classroom for several years...so he started the handwriting later, after getting familiar with SW in general...

  So that is my advice...Your students and teachers are beginners or at least, in their first year of learning and using SW, so maybe the handwriting should wait until next year?

  But they could try some of these Handprinting techniques right now:

  http://www.signwriting.org/lessons/cursive/curs011.html

  Val ;-)

  ----------

  On Dec 8, 2008, at 8:05 AM, Gagnon et Thibeault wrote:

  Hi Val, Anne-Claude and everyone,

   Anny,  I don't ask that you translate a SW handwriting's web pages.   You translate only two words : handprinting and handwriting.

          I mean that I need only a section "Quick dailly writing". I am writing a LSQ curriculum for a SW writing.  I understand that you need to write new books.  No problem.  I am trying  better to describe a SW handwriting (quick daily writing).

      I believe that Deaf students write a SW handprinting because teachers don't know about SW handwriting norms (Quick daily writing).

      Hand waving

      André

    ----- Original Message -----

    From: Valerie Sutton

    To: SignWriting List

    Cc: Gagnon et Thibeault

    Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 10:12 AM

    Subject: Re: [sw-l] Handwriting

    SignWriting List

    December 8, 2008

    Hello Andre and Anny -

    There is no document to translate...smile...but there are web pages.

    If you follow all the links on this web page:

    SignWriting Handwriting

    http://www.signwriting.org/lessons/cursive/

    There are six sections and each section has several web pages...I do not know if Andre really needs a translation of those web pages into French?

    I have nothing else to give you right now, Andre...More books on Handwriting will have to wait for awhile, since I am so behind on other books that need to be updated...

    Have you seen the front page of our web site? Stefan's Deaf student Eduard is quite an artist with SW calligraphy, don't you think?

    SignWriting HomePage

    http://www.SignWriting.org

    Stefan will be sending us more photos of the finished art later...i look forward to seeing them!

    And I believe that Kim from Boston has also done some SW calligraphy...

    Kim's work

    http://www.signwriting.org/usa/massachusetts/

    Val ;-)

    -----------

    On Dec 8, 2008, at 6:55 AM, Anne-Claude Prélaz Girod wrote:

    andré

    what kind of document do you need to get translated from english into french ?!?!?!

    let me know

    Anny

    Le 8 déc. 08 à 15:43, Gagnon et Thibeault a écrit :

    Hi Anne-Claude, Val and everyone,

        Anny, I would like you to translate a handprinting and a handwriting        from English to French?

        Val, I am writing a LSQ curriculum from grade 7th to 8th  including SW reading and SW writing now.  But, I don't know about handwriting        norms.  I would like you to explain me handwriting norms in general.  You remember that you gave a handwriting course to some participants one year ago.  I love learning it.   I don't mean that participants do their homework but they read only instructions.  Would you give us general explanations or instructions  of handwriting norms which help me write and explain a LSQ curriculum including SW writing ? You don't need an explanation of the handprinting.

        Best regards,

        André

    ____________________________________________

    SW-L SignWriting List

    Post Message

    SW-L at majordomo.valenciacc.edu

    List Archives and Help

    http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist/

    Change Email Settings

    http://majordomo.valenciacc.edu/mailman/listinfo/sw-l

    ____________________________________________

    SW-L SignWriting List

    Post Message
    SW-L at majordomo.valenciacc.edu

    List Archives and Help
    http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist/

    Change Email Settings
    http://majordomo.valenciacc.edu/mailman/listinfo/sw-l

  = 

  ____________________________________________

  SW-L SignWriting List

  Post Message
  SW-L at majordomo.valenciacc.edu

  List Archives and Help
  http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist/

  Change Email Settings
  http://majordomo.valenciacc.edu/mailman/listinfo/sw-l

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Ich verwende die kostenlose Version von SPAMfighter, die bisher
  495 Spammails entfernt und mir so eine Menge Zeit gespart hat.
  Rund 5,6 Millionen Leute nutzen SPAMfighter schon =

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  ____________________________________________

  SW-L SignWriting List

  Post Message
  SW-L at majordomo.valenciacc.edu

  List Archives and Help
  http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist/

  Change Email Settings
  http://majordomo.valenciacc.edu/mailman/listinfo/sw-l
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/sw-l/attachments/20081208/c2701744/attachment.html>
-------------- next part --------------

____________________________________________

SW-L SignWriting List

Post Message
SW-L at majordomo.valenciacc.edu

List Archives and Help
http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist/

Change Email Settings
http://majordomo.valenciacc.edu/mailman/listinfo/sw-l