Handwriting

[Kimberley Shaw]

Thank you for your helpful notes, Stefan!
When I'm on a real computer, and not reading and writing email from my
cellphone (as I am right now), I'll be sure to print it out and put it
with my lesson plans.
Whew, glad to know my fledgeling teaching instincts aren't completely
off the mark!
Best,
Kim S

On 12/9/08, Stefan Wöhrmann <stefanwoehrmann at googlemail.com> wrote:
> Hi Kim,
> another option on a higher level would be to combine different cards - SW
> -flashcard with foto or graphic of the signer - or later even two different
> Sign Languages as shown in this attached example. German SL (DGS) and ASL --
> and you will be surprised to see that participants with only very few
> experience will understand to remember the signs.
>
> continued next message
>
> Stefan ;-)
>
>
> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: sw-l-bounces at majordomo.valenciacc.edu
> [mailto:sw-l-bounces at majordomo.valenciacc.edu] Im Auftrag von Kimberley Shaw
> Gesendet: Dienstag, 9. Dezember 2008 22:09
> An: SignWriting List
> Betreff: Re: [sw-l] Handwriting
>
> Hello all:
> but what about using handwritten SW with *adult* students of ASL? I am
> about (for the first time ever!) to teach a short class of
> intro-to-ASL on a college campus. Since SW has helped me enormously
> with retaining new vocabulary, I hope it will help my students as well
> ... I'm imagining a set of "your 1st 50 ASL signs" in flashcard
> format, and maybe they can transcribe from blackboard onto their own
> cards (reinforce the new signs!). Or would it be more confusing than
> helpful?
> Have any of you attempted to use SW with adult beginners of signed
> languages?
> Best,
> Kim from Boston
>
> On 12/8/08, Stefan Wöhrmann <stefanwoehrmann at gebaerdenschrift.de> wrote:
>> Hi Stuart,
>>
>> thank you very much for your comment.  I would like to afform that I go
>> along with your thoughts. One problem – I see – we would not be good
>> teachers if we think to write by hand is an easy to accomplish task for
>> children. No it is not true.  SignWriting by hand is difficult and it
> takes
>> many many hours of practice and a teacher who enables them to keep
>> motivated. It is a time consuming and slow – and in a surrounding where
>> everything and all is oriented towards spoken languge you would not expect
> a
>> child to develop higher skills in an area if there are no adults who
> really
>> understand ...
>>
>>
>>
>> And what   you suggest is a brilliant idea – we need to compare the
> symbols
>> as they are printed with noble software – and what they look like if
> written
>> by hand. That is the reason Valerie that I am so interested in the  first
>> handwritten documents – .. smile ... just to compare the way other
>> handwriters tried to find their way to write double circular movements,
>> hands parallel to the floor, .... smile
>>
>>
>>
>> Attached another handwritten document of a SignWriting enthusiast – smile
> –
>> next to a railway-track
>>
>>
>>
>> All the best
>>
>>
>>
>> Stefan ;-)
>>
>>
>>
>>   _____
>>
>> Von: sw-l-bounces at majordomo.valenciacc.edu
>> [mailto:sw-l-bounces at majordomo.valenciacc.edu] Im Auftrag von Stuart
>> Thiessen
>> Gesendet: Montag, 8. Dezember 2008 18:06
>> An: SignWriting List
>> Betreff: Re: [sw-l] Handwriting
>>
>>
>>
>> Valerie, I understand your point about learning to handprint before doing
>> cursive, etc.
>>
>>
>>
>> But I still believe that one of the barriers to acceptance of SignWriting
> by
>> some people is the fact that it appears to be slow to write by hand. I
> know
>> that there is a long history of writing by hand before the various
> programs
>> that we have today. My point simply is that the information that people
> have
>> now is focused on the computer program which is a very important element.
>> But also there is a very important element of having a handwritten form
> that
>> is simpler than the printed form and more easily written.
>>
>>
>>
>> When people can see both styles of writing (printed and written), then
> that
>> will open up new arguments for the usefulness of SignWriting in everyday
>> life.
>>
>>
>>
>> So, I know the ISWA has been your priority for now, and it is an important
>> priority. And more is still going on that. This is just something that
> will
>> need to be resolved at some point.
>>
>>
>>
>> One suggestion I have is that maybe at some point you introduce
> handwritten
>> forms for each of the ISWA symbols. So a person can look up an ISWA symbol
>> and see both the printed form and the handwritten form. So as they
> practice
>> on the computer or on a piece of paper, they can learn to use and read the
>> system both ways.
>>
>>
>>
>> Hebrew, for example, has the same alphabet, but the exact form of the
> letter
>> varies depending on which written form of Hebrew you use (Cursive, Rashi,
> or
>> the printed form). (See the chart at
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebrew_alphabet).
>>
>>
>>
>> Like you've said before, it may be that we will have different "fonts" or
>> writing styles for SignWriting, but I think it will encourage people to
> also
>> write by hand if there is a way to write it simply. Then they start doing
>> grocery lists and quick notes to family and class notes and eventually it
>> becomes a part of their everyday handwriting strategies.
>>
>>
>>
>> I admit for myself that I rarely handwrite SignWriting because the printed
>> symbols just take longer to handwrite. When I do SignWriting, it is
> usually
>> only when I use SignPuddle. I would prefer to handwrite more, but I find
> my
>> motivation is lower when I have to invent my own ways of writing the
> printed
>> forms faster. So when the time comes to show handwriting, I'm less likely
> to
>> convince them on that front.
>>
>>
>>
>> Just my thoughts.
>>
>>
>>
>> Stuart
>>
>>
>>
>> On Dec 8, 2008, at 10:35 , Valerie Sutton wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> SignWriting List
>>
>> December 8, 2008
>>
>>
>>
>> Hello Andre -
>>
>> In a SignWriting curriculum, for children, I would put learning SW
>> Handwriting in the third year...
>>
>>
>>
>> Just as it explains on these web pages:
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.signwriting.org/lessons/cursive/curs003.html
>>
>>
>>
>> and
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.signwriting.org/lessons/cursive/curs004.html
>>
>>
>>
>> In any written form, writing in a "faster cursive style" takes skill. Plus
>> SignWriting does not have the documentation ready for teaching formal SW
>> Handwriting...
>>
>>
>>
>> Therefore, when we were young children learning to write English
> characters,
>> we did not start by learning English cursive-handwriting...we started with
>> hand-printing each English character carefully, writing them in rows and
>> rows until we became skilled...
>>
>>
>>
>> Then, after learning how to write in this perfect hand-printing style,
> after
>> around the second grade...for me it was in the third grade...I started to
>> learn to write real handwriting in school (for English)...so based on that
>> experience, I suggest that SW handprinting should be taught the first two
>> years of a SignWriting curriculum, and the SW handwriting starts around
> the
>> third year in school...
>>
>>
>>
>> Stefan has some experience with this...His student, Eduard, who is writing
>> in the picture on the front page of our web site, is a skilled SignWriting
>> student, having been in Stefan's classroom for several years...so he
> started
>> the handwriting later, after getting familiar with SW in general...
>>
>>
>>
>> So that is my advice...Your students and teachers are beginners or at
> least,
>> in their first year of learning and using SW, so maybe the handwriting
>> should wait until next year?
>>
>>
>>
>> But they could try some of these Handprinting techniques right now:
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.signwriting.org/lessons/cursive/curs011.html
>>
>>
>>
>> Val ;-)
>>
>>
>>
>> ----------
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Dec 8, 2008, at 8:05 AM, Gagnon et Thibeault wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi Val, Anne-Claude and everyone,
>>
>>
>>
>>  Anny,  I don't ask that you translate a SW handwriting's web pages.   You
>> translate only two words : handprinting and handwriting.
>>
>>
>>
>>         I mean that I need only a section "Quick dailly writing". I am
>> writing a LSQ curriculum for a SW writing.  I understand that you need to
>> write new books.  No problem.  I am trying  better to describe a SW
>> handwriting (quick daily writing).
>>
>>
>>
>>     I believe that Deaf students write a SW handprinting because teachers
>> don't know about SW handwriting norms (Quick daily writing).
>>
>>
>>
>>     Hand waving
>>
>>
>>
>>     André
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>>
>> From:  <mailto:signwriting at mac.com> Valerie Sutton
>>
>> To:  <mailto:sw-l at majordomo.valenciacc.edu> SignWriting List
>>
>> Cc:  <mailto:atg at videotron.ca> Gagnon et Thibeault
>>
>> Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 10:12 AM
>>
>> Subject: Re: [sw-l] Handwriting
>>
>>
>>
>> SignWriting List
>>
>> December 8, 2008
>>
>>
>>
>> Hello Andre and Anny -
>>
>> There is no document to translate...smile...but there are web pages.
>>
>>
>>
>> If you follow all the links on this web page:
>>
>>
>>
>> SignWriting Handwriting
>>
>>  <http://www.signwriting.org/lessons/cursive/>
>> http://www.signwriting.org/lessons/cursive/
>>
>>
>>
>> There are six sections and each section has several web pages...I do not
>> know if Andre really needs a translation of those web pages into French?
>>
>>
>>
>> I have nothing else to give you right now, Andre...More books on
> Handwriting
>> will have to wait for awhile, since I am so behind on other books that
> need
>> to be updated...
>>
>>
>>
>> Have you seen the front page of our web site? Stefan's Deaf student Eduard
>> is quite an artist with SW calligraphy, don't you think?
>>
>>
>>
>> SignWriting HomePage
>>
>>  <http://www.SignWriting.org> http://www.SignWriting.org
>>
>>
>>
>> Stefan will be sending us more photos of the finished art later...i look
>> forward to seeing them!
>>
>>
>>
>> And I believe that Kim from Boston has also done some SW calligraphy...
>>
>>
>>
>> Kim's work
>>
>>  <http://www.signwriting.org/usa/massachusetts/>
>> http://www.signwriting.org/usa/massachusetts/
>>
>>
>>
>> Val ;-)
>>
>>
>>
>> -----------
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Dec 8, 2008, at 6:55 AM, Anne-Claude Prélaz Girod wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> andré
>>
>>
>>
>> what kind of document do you need to get translated from english into
> french
>> ?!?!?!
>>
>>
>>
>> let me know
>>
>>
>>
>> Anny
>>
>>
>>
>> Le 8 déc. 08 à 15:43, Gagnon et Thibeault a écrit :
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi Anne-Claude, Val and everyone,
>>
>>
>>
>>     Anny, I would like you to translate a handprinting and a handwriting
>> from English to French?
>>
>>
>>
>>     Val, I am writing a LSQ curriculum from grade 7th to 8th  including SW
>> reading and SW writing now.  But, I don't know about handwriting
>> norms.  I would like you to explain me handwriting norms in general.  You
>> remember that you gave a handwriting course to some participants one year
>> ago.  I love learning it.   I don't mean that participants do their
> homework
>> but they read only instructions.  Would you give us general explanations
> or
>> instructions  of handwriting norms which help me write and explain a LSQ
>> curriculum including SW writing ? You don't need an explanation of the
>> handprinting.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>     Best regards,
>>
>>
>>
>>     André
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>>
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