Question about ASL sign GOVERNMENT

Charles Butler chazzer3332000 at YAHOO.COM
Fri Nov 21 12:06:02 UTC 2008

The wrist rotation starts from the top of the hand and
goes down and around.  I can understand you seeing it
going up and forward but the direction of the arrow is
still around the outside of the circle not the inside
of the circle. 

If you look at movement as a clock face, you are going
clockwise around the circle, not counter-clockwise, so
you could mark as I  to the center, but not to the

There are actually two knuckle bends, one to start,
and one at the end, so the writing with both hands
shown is probably clearer, just not as compact. 

--- Natasha Escalada-Westland <shash90 at>

> Thanks everyone for the feedback and discussion!  I
> understand all the explanations except the wrist
> rotation.  To me, the symbol that Adam used and
> Charles discussed looks as if the wrist rotates down
> and back, yet when I sign to myself, the movement
> seems up and forward.  Do I misunderstand movement
> symbol then?Natasha Escalada-Westland, M.Ed. (D/HH),
> Macromedia 
> From: icemandeaf at gmail.comTo:
> sw-l at majordomo.valenciacc.eduSubject: Re: [sw-l]
> Question about ASL sign GOVERNMENTDate: Thu, 20 Nov
> 2008 13:01:47 -0800CC: shash90 at
> If I were to write it as I sign it, which is a lot
> like how I can see Natasha is writing it, I would
> come up with this for more detailed use:
> But I would simplify it even more as this is really
> more information then is needed. So something like
> this:
> Although Charles did say that the palm should all be
> white as it is in ASLpro and wouldn't disagree with
> it if it is written that way because I have seen
> people sign it that way, I don't normally end up
> that way when I sign it. So half black and white or
> white is fine. Up to the writer. ;-)
> The black dot means the knuckle bends in, but the
> open dot means the knuckles bend out, so the final
> movement is bending open. 
> Charles is right that the wrist circle is backwards
> as you have it where the wrist circles up, not down
> as with the sign.
> I personally don't use the single touch because it
> is clear that the finger is touching the head. Also,
> the touch symbol does not go between the finger and
> the head, but near if you want it there. 
> Other than that, my simplified writing (which is
> what I would normally use in most cases) match very
> closely to you writing. Just a few confusions about
> a couple of the symbols, but not bad. :-)
> If you want more help, just let us know. Always
> willing to give feedback on writing. :-)
> Adam
> On Nov 20, 2008, at 10:51 AM, Charles Butler wrote:
> If one knows the sign, this is quite compact and
> contains all the information necessary to  read
> outside to inside to end at the point of contact.  I
> checked on
> to get a video of the sign (they only have Governor)
> but that is Govern + person.
> Notes on writing.
> Reading from the inside out. 
> 1) Sign ends at point of contact (the palm facing
> usually written).  At that point, the hand is palm
> facing the reader, the index finger as written is
> palm down, which is the point of initial movement
> not the ending movement. 
> 2) The knuckle bend is shown correctly.
> 3) The wrist movement is backward.  If one follows
> the circle, one's index finger would be going toward
> the center which is the opposite of the movement if
> one is signing one's own hand.  As it is a complete
> circular movement, the type of movement is correct,
> just the rotation of the arrow needs to be mirrored.
> So, to fix the writing:
> 1) Reverse the wrist circle (imagine the index
> finger circling away from you, which is out from the
> center in writing). 
> 2) Change the palm facing on the index finger to
> palm toward the reader (all white, not half and
> half). 
> 3) Leave the knuckle bend where it is.  The whole
> writing is compact and actually quite elegant.
> Charles Butler
> Valerie Sutton <signwriting at> wrote:
> SignWriting ListNovember 20, 2008Hello SW List!This
> morning Natasha sent the SW List an email, and I am
> not sure why, but the message came through only
> through the Digest version of the SW List, but not
> into my email just in case, I am re-posting
> Natasha's question to the List to be sure you all
> got it....I hope the SignWriting teachers on the
> List will answer Natasha's question! Thank you
> Natasha for this question! Val ;-)PS. I am enjoying
> my visit with my sister...thank you, Adam, for
> wishing us a happy Thanksgiving and I want to wish a
> happy Thanksgiving to you too, and to all who
> celebrate the holiday here in the US...Actually
> Thanksgiving Day is a week from today, but my sister
> came early because she cannot be here on the real
> Thanksgiving we are celebrating
> ;-)-----------------> From: "Natasha
> Escalada-Westland" > Date: November 20, 2008 5:19:42
> AM PST> To: "SignWriting Listserve" > Subject:
> [sw-l] ASL sign for government> Reply-To:
> "SignWriting List" >>> Hi All,>> I just wanted some
> feedback on this version I wrote of the ASL sign >
> for "government".> Thanks!>>>> Natasha
> Escalada-Westland, M.Ed. (D/HH), Macromedia Cert.>
> SignWriting ListPost
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