Question about ASL sign GOVERNMENT

Fri Nov 21 15:36:56 UTC 2008

I can understand why this symbol would cause confusion. It is a rather  
complex one. So let me see if I can help explain it.

The wrist circle means that the arm does not travel, but the movement  
is pivoted at the wrist. The way I figure out which ones to use, I  
look at what my fingers draw in the air. Also remember, there are two  
types of circles, a white circle and a half black/half white oval. The  
white wrist circle wrist would be like me drawing on the front wall.  
The half-half wrist circle would be like drawing on the side wall.

I hope that helps you. It could also be confusing because we might be  
talking about different movements. The only way to know is to see how  
you sign it. Alas, one of the challenges of doing this over the  
Internet. (This gives me an idea. *runs to the drawing board*)

Adam

On Nov 21, 2008, at 3:48 AM, "Natasha Escalada-Westland" <shash90 at hotmail.com 
 > wrote:

> Thanks everyone for the feedback and discussion!  I understand all  
> the explanations except the wrist rotation.  To me, the symbol that  
> Adam used and Charles discussed looks as if the wrist rotates down  
> and back, yet when I sign to myself, the movement seems up and  
> forward.  Do I misunderstand movement symbol then?
>
> Natasha Escalada-Westland, M.Ed. (D/HH), Macromedia Cert.
> www.westlandasl.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: icemandeaf at gmail.com
> To: sw-l at majordomo.valenciacc.edu
> Subject: Re: [sw-l] Question about ASL sign GOVERNMENT
> Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 13:01:47 -0800
> CC: shash90 at hotmail.com
>
> If I were to write it as I sign it, which is a lot like how I can  
> see Natasha is writing it, I would come up with this for more  
> detailed use:
> <government.png>
>
> But I would simplify it even more as this is really more information  
> then is needed. So something like this:
> <government_simplified.png>
>
> Although Charles did say that the palm should all be white as it is  
> in ASLpro and wouldn't disagree with it if it is written that way  
> because I have seen people sign it that way, I don't normally end up  
> that way when I sign it. So half black and white or white is fine.  
> Up to the writer. ;-)
>
> The black dot means the knuckle bends in, but the open dot means the  
> knuckles bend out, so the final movement is bending open.
>
> Charles is right that the wrist circle is backwards as you have it  
> where the wrist circles up, not down as with the sign.
>
> I personally don't use the single touch because it is clear that the  
> finger is touching the head. Also, the touch symbol does not go  
> between the finger and the head, but near if you want it there.
>
> Other than that, my simplified writing (which is what I would  
> normally use in most cases) match very closely to you writing. Just  
> a few confusions about a couple of the symbols, but not bad. :-)
>
> If you want more help, just let us know. Always willing to give  
> feedback on writing. :-)
>
> Adam
>
> On Nov 20, 2008, at 10:51 AM, Charles Butler wrote:
> If one knows the sign, this is quite compact and contains all the  
> information necessary to  read outside to inside to end at the point  
> of contact.  I checked on
>
> http://www.aslpro.com/cgi-bin/aslpro/aslpro.cgi
>
> to get a video of the sign (they only have Governor) but that is  
> Govern + person.
>
> Notes on writing.
>
> Reading from the inside out.
>
> 1) Sign ends at point of contact (the palm facing usually written).   
> At that point, the hand is palm facing the reader, the index finger  
> as written is palm down, which is the point of initial movement not  
> the ending movement.
>
> 2) The knuckle bend is shown correctly.
>
> 3) The wrist movement is backward.  If one follows the circle, one's  
> index finger would be going toward the center which is the opposite  
> of the movement if one is signing one's own hand.  As it is a  
> complete circular movement, the type of movement is correct, just  
> the rotation of the arrow needs to be mirrored.
>
> So, to fix the writing:
>
> 1) Reverse the wrist circle (imagine the index finger circling away  
> from you, which is out from the center in writing).
>
> 2) Change the palm facing on the index finger to palm toward the  
> reader (all white, not half and half).
>
> 3) Leave the knuckle bend where it is.  The whole writing is compact  
> and actually quite elegant.
>
> Charles Butler
>
>
>
>
> Valerie Sutton <signwriting at mac.com> wrote:
> SignWriting List
> November 20, 2008
>
> Hello SW List!
> This morning Natasha sent the SW List an email, and I am not sure why,
> but the message came through only through the Digest version of the SW
> List, but not into my email box...so just in case, I am re-posting
> Natasha's question to the List to be sure you all got it....
>
> I hope the SignWriting teachers on the List will answer Natasha's
> question! Thank you Natasha for this question! Val ;-)
>
> PS. I am enjoying my visit with my sister...thank you, Adam, for
> wishing us a happy Thanksgiving and I want to wish a happy
> Thanksgiving to you too, and to all who celebrate the holiday here in
> the US...Actually Thanksgiving Day is a week from today, but my sister
> came early because she cannot be here on the real Thanksgiving
> Day...so we are celebrating early...smile ;-)
>
>
>
> -----------------
>
> > From: "Natasha Escalada-Westland"
> > Date: November 20, 2008 5:19:42 AM PST
> > To: "SignWriting Listserve"
> > Subject: [sw-l] ASL sign for government
> > Reply-To: "SignWriting List"
> >
> >
> > Hi All,
> >
> > I just wanted some feedback on this version I wrote of the ASL sign
> > for "government".
> > Thanks!
> >
> ><image.php>
> >
> > Natasha Escalada-Westland, M.Ed. (D/HH), Macromedia Cert.
> > www.westlandasl.com
> >
>
>
>
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