How many symbols do we use in SignWriting? Part 2b

[Valerie Sutton]

SignWriting List
August 18, 2009

Hello Maria!
And I also say "wow"! I think your dissertation sounds incredible and  
very interesting indeed. It will be a valuable contribution to Maltese  
Sign Language research and also SignWriting history...thank you,  
Maria, for working on this important project...

And thanks to everyone for all your input - it was a really good  
discussion -

Val ;-)

-------


On Aug 18, 2009, at 2:50 PM, MARIA AZZOPARDI wrote:

> Dear Valerie, Charles, Stefan, Steve and all friends.
>
> Wow. I feel like I've eaten a book - there was SO much important
> information going round all those emails - thank you ever so much!!
>
> A few points I took note of:
>
> 1. I totally agree that for specific languages the number of symbols  
> you
> count depends on HOW you count. I love the example of the symbols in
> English - I never actually thought of it that way, true - adding
> punctuation symbols, capital letters and numbers - the symbol set for
> English is much higher than 24.
>
> 2. I am so glad there is the Symbol Frequency - this is invaluable!  
> (thank
> you steve!) Over the past few weeks I've been teaching SignWriting  
> to a
> few interpreters. This was the first time ever that I exposed students
> SPECIFICALLY to the symbols we use in Maltese Sign Language. For  
> instance
> in our language we don't even have one instance from the handgroup  
> 7, so I
> told them they don't need this group. From the manual I manually  
> marked
> all the symbols we use in LSM (based on my intuition from years of
> SignWriting and more recently from long documents we have written) -  
> but
> to have the Symbol Frequency just makes it incredible easy to do!
>
> 3. Stefan, although it's true that the Iswa2008 has enough symbols to
> write DGS and yet more than you will ever need - still I strongly  
> believe
> that it would be good to extract from the Iswa2008 a symbolset for  
> DGS -
> why you may ask? to make the signwriting of DGS more standard. If you
> expose your students to a symbolset, when they write, even though  
> they may
> produce handshapes which are NOT in the symbolset for DGS -I am SURE  
> that
> they will FIT the handshape they produce into a close-enough symbol.  
> To
> give an example from speech - if we did not have conventions for  
> spelling
> English, then people with all different dialects would choose  
> different
> spellings for the way they pronounce the words - and having so many
> differnet ways of spelling the same word - well imagine that! How  
> would we
> understand each other in writing?
>
> This links directly to what Valerie commented about the past 80  
> handshapes
> that were enough to write ASL before, but now, since there are more
> available, then users of ASL are simply using more than 80 handshapes!
> Why? Because there are sO MANY individual differences  
> (idiosyncracries),
> so many slightly different ways of configuring your hands etc etc..  
> yet
> many of these slight differences DO NOT need to come out in the  
> spellings.
>
> That is what my dissertation is about - what is the MINIMUM required  
> in
> spelling signs - enough for a signer of Maltese Sign Language (or any
> other language for that matter) to READ! not to make the sign  
> exactly as
> it is produced (phonetically) in real life but to READ.
>
> So, I'm not only after HOW MANY SYMBOLS are needed to write Maltese  
> Sign
> Language. But also how to write the langauge at word-level using as  
> few
> symbols as possible - just enough to read and understand the signs.  
> ALSO I
> will be looking at sentence level - how to pattern all verbal  
> inflection
> etc using signwriting - and I mean PATTERN - just like in spoken  
> languages
> where past tense in English is always -ed. Or in Italian where you  
> know
> who the person is because of the verbal inflection  -parl-o parl-i,
> parl-ano etc etc. Although patterns often occur in spatial movements  
> which
> may vary depending on the position of two signers - STILL a pattern  
> needs
> to be established, irrelevant to individual differences of how  
> people are
> standing in relation to one another
>
> Have I lost you? Hope not. Let me know where I wasn't clear enough.
>
> Thanks again everyone for your invaluable input, and thanks Valerie  
> for so
> much of your time - I got tired reading the emails - let alone you  
> writing
> so many.
>
> Maria
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________
>
> SW-L SignWriting List
>
> Post Message
> SW-L at majordomo.valenciacc.edu
>
> List Archives and Help
> http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist/
>
> Change Email Settings
> http://majordomo.valenciacc.edu/mailman/listinfo/sw-l
>




____________________________________________

SW-L SignWriting List

Post Message
SW-L at majordomo.valenciacc.edu

List Archives and Help
http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist/

Change Email Settings
http://majordomo.valenciacc.edu/mailman/listinfo/sw-l