Handshapes and systematic discussion

Tue Jun 2 22:38:40 UTC 2009

SignWriting List
June 2, 2009

Hello Maria!
Thank you for this lovely message and your support...I am happy to  
know what you think and I agree with everything you say...

As you mention, you are writing long documents, and that is the  
important point I think...If we are able to really write the language  
in its full beauty and expression, then we are doing fine...

Someday those documents will help you determine what symbols are  
needed to write your specific sign language, so you can create a  
smaller subset of symbols from the ISWA, just for your sign language...

And changing the subject a tiny bit, have you read any of the ASL  
documents, Gospel According to John? They are translated from English  
to ASL by Nancy Romero, and edited by Lucinda O'Grady Batch...we have  
six Chapters at the moment and there will be all 21 by the end of the  
summer...then we will publish them in a big book....it may be 400  
pages of pure SignWriting...

Nancy has a lovely, simple way of writing ASL which I really read  
easily...

Gospel According to John
http://www.signwriting.org/library/bible/Gospel_John.html

Someday we can create a web area for your Maltese Sign Language Bible  
as well if you wish, as a part of our Library online...

Val ;-)

----------

On Jun 2, 2009, at 12:05 PM, MARIA AZZOPARDI wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> Just my two cents worth.
>
> I find ISWA 2008 perfect - and I have and continue to use it for long
> documents of running LSM text.
>
> I don't think the writing system actually needs any more detail or
> precision at all. All that needs to be evolve now is that each sign
> language standardises his language using ISWA 2008. The important  
> thing is
> that a community of users of a sign language recognise their signs in
> their language - and everyone writes it the same way.
>
> Let me try and give an example. In LSM, I've written MAN - maybe 3-4
> different ways - it can be read in all the different forms produced  
> - the
> cruciality now is simply choosing ONE form so that it becomes  
> standard. It
> is irrevelant whether the handshape chosen for signwritten X is  
> exactly as
> it appears in natural signing - no! If you want the exact shape -  
> draw it!
> Signwriting is about language not drawings. All that is needed now, is
> that all sign language users recognise and agree that signwritten X  
> refers
> to sign X in their language. Although there are hundreds of different
> accents around the world for spoken English, the word 'different' is
> always written like this whether people pronounce it differently or  
> not.
>
> I think the ISWA 2008 exhausts all the phonetic possibilities of sign
> langauges - and if in very cases it does not - there is still enough
> symbols to make signwriting readable (in technical terms: to create
> phonological inventories or alphabets for different sign languages)-  
> that
> is all that matters, that signwriting is readable and not a copy of  
> real
> signing.
>
> Take care ye all :)
>
> Maria
>> Steve, this reply answers a lot of questions in a very positive  
>> way.  The
>> fact that release notes are included makes all the difference in the
>> world.  Any system has its points of discussion, letting people  
>> know that
>> there is flexibility allows for teachers to make choices.
>>
>> Without that proviso it feels as it if it fixed in stone, not a  
>> flexible
>> system that has its very positive system and sometimes confusing  
>> small
>> points.  This mirror reflection discussion is a point of reference  
>> that
>> means that the symbol one wants is there, just not in an expected  
>> place,
>> and that can be worked around.
>>
>> Charles
>>
>>
>>
>> --- On Tue, 6/2/09, Steve Slevinski <slevin at signpuddle.net> wrote:
>>
>> From: Steve Slevinski <slevin at signpuddle.net>
>> Subject: Re: [sw-l] RE: Handshapes and systematic discussion
>> To: "SignWriting List" <sw-l at majordomo.valenciacc.edu>
>> Date: Tuesday, June 2, 2009, 9:30 AM
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi Charles,
>>
>>
>>
>> Charles Butler wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>        As we start getting photographs being laid side by side
>> with the graphics that have been created, I think we are going to  
>> come
>> to a MUCH BETTER consensus discussion and if that means that the ISWA
>> has to be edited, then so much the better.  All of us can be  
>> consulted
>> and come to a happy decision.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> If you want to start making notes for the ISWA 2012, please go ahead.
>> Valerie and Adam are documenting the ISWA 2008 so you'll be getting
>> more and more information to work with.
>>
>>
>>
>> The ISWA 2008 will not be changing.  I highly doubt the ISWA will be
>> revisited in the near future.  We have limited time and resources and
>> we are moving forward.  Your attitude reinforces the idea that we are
>> not ready for Unicode yet unless people accept the idea that no  
>> writing
>> system is perfect and that knowledge can be gained by understanding  
>> the
>> imperfections.
>>
>>
>>
>> The ISWA 2008 was a labor of love.  We already had a formal review  
>> and
>> that review ended last year.  The ISWA 2008 is the current standard  
>> for
>> SignWriting.
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> -Steve
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>
>
>
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