movement in LIQUID

Valerie Sutton sutton at SIGNWRITING.ORG
Mon Mar 9 15:16:50 UTC 2009

SignWriting List
March 9, 2009

Hello Charles and Everyone -
Many thanks for this message. And thank you for offering to do another  
video from the side perspective, but actually I would prefer to just  
write from the two videos that we already have...

The purpose of this List, from my perspective anyway, is to use  
Movement Writing as the basis for finding accurate but simple ways of  
writing signs for daily use...In other words, it is fine that we write  
with a great deal of detail in the beginning when we are trying to  
figure out hard signs like this one, but later, the whole point is, to  
move into the daily world of writing sign languages, and so the signs  
will become "simpler" with less detail, so it is not so cumbersome to  
write for daily use...

So the Movement Writing analysis is important, but seeing it from the  
side is not what most everyday signers experience...

One point though, that I would like to make...the two videos, one of  
Cherie and one of Adam, although they certainly are similar signs and  
at first glance seem to be the same...technically...from a Movement  
Writing point of view...are slightly different movements...If you  
write on top of the captured frames from each video, which is the way  
I do Movement Writing, you find that Cherie's movement is slightly  
larger and the hands start to the left and finish in the center...but  
Adam's appears to be more center all the time in a true circle...As  
Adam said, Cherie's movement really did wave to the side more...

So the way to analyze these signs from the Movement Writing point of  
view, is to:

1. capture the frames from the video in photos in a sequence
2. write on top of the photos
3. then apply the SignSpelling Guidelines specific to SignWriting (not  
DanceWriting or SportsWriting, that would choose different details to  

What are the SignSpelling Guidelines? Good question...I am writing  
them up in a new textbook...Generally you all know them...

And as far as "proof" that we can write anything...I already know we  
can write anything if we put our minds to is just a matter of  
time to find what most people can understand...of course videos vary  
and styles of signing vary, so nothing is ever exactly as everyone  
signs it....

Maria...I will answer your message next about DocumentMaker...sorry  
for the delay...

Val ;-)


On Mar 9, 2009, at 7:34 AM, Charles Butler wrote:

> I like the ideas being posted about stop action to show the various  
> points as an exercise.  We have three hand positions, at least four  
> wrist flexes, and repeated movement as an examination of the ability  
> of Movement Writing to show anything.
> Now if we can do this from the side, we just need to figure out a  
> way to show it moving away from the body forward, sort of like an  
> ocean wave where the elbows move up and down the waves roll and the  
> whole thing moves forward.  I wish I had a video to show you.
> Charles Butler
> From: Charles Butler <chazzer3332000 at>
> To: SignWriting List <sw-l at>
> Sent: Sunday, March 8, 2009 10:26:23 PM
> Subject: Re: [sw-l] movement in LIQUID
> The movement doesn't feel right, the circle is probably the closest  
> smooth curve for the center of the hands.  I think we are all going  
> to discuss this for a while.
> Charles
> From: Valerie Sutton <sutton at>
> To: SignWriting List <sw-l at>
> Sent: Sunday, March 8, 2009 1:42:11 PM
> Subject: Re: [sw-l] movement in LIQUID
> SignWriting List
> March 8, 2009
> Good Morning from sunny California!
> I am just longing to finish discussing this fascinating movement  
> that we started to discuss yesterday. Please know that every writing  
> will be looked at, and discussed later, so everyone's input is  
> important to all of us...
> While I am doing other work, I am thinking about this fascinating  
> movement ;-)
> What seems to me, at least, is that there is both wrist movement and  
> arm movement, and that there is a feeling of a circle, and a feeling  
> of a wave, and a feeling of up and down of the wrists and arms. All  
> of your writings are trying to capture some of those feelings, and  
> it is hard to capture all of the feelings in one writing...thus we  
> keep trying!
> Here is one more attempt on my part to show you possible "waves  
> combined with curves", or possibly a "wave inside a circle", written  
> with a wavy motion symbol combined with the simple curve that brings  
> the hands back to the beginning again...Just look at the movement  
> symbols in this either of these movement  
> combinations feel good to any of you?
> So this attached is not a finished writing at is just my  
> attempt to show you perhaps a wave and a curve combination...
> What do you think?
> ____________________________________________
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