invisible person in ASL storytelling...

[Bill Reese]

That's an interesting idea, Ingvild.  That seems to be a difference, 
again, between a linguistic study and a written language.  It's a topic 
that would definitely need to be debated - would it be an additional 
standard, an option, or would it be too confusing when interpreting a 
sign?  In the issue at hand, there is no second man in the signing 
itself but there is one in the story.   So does the story line become 
what it signed or the movement made by the story teller?  How would we 
apply the idea to placement markers, which indicate separate people 
within a story - would we be free to add faces to each location to 
indicate a person?  Would this lead to adding abstract symbols for other 
things, animate and inanimate.  Would sign writing become more iconic 
and complex because if it?

Obviously, if the expressive viewpoint can be written without ever being 
actually expressed - as in a writer directly writing a story without 
transcription of what someone else is signing - then it opens up the 
idea of presenting everyone involved in the story - the same as 
placement markers would do.  So should we use placement markers and 
indicate the second person, as we know how to do now, as a separate 
sign, even though a signer may not actually make the placement marker 
sign?  In hearing languages, when a speaker leaves out a word or 
concept, it is often put in parenthesis in the transcription.  

For example: "My son jumped (over) the hurdle."

It clarifies the meaning of what is said.  Could then we put a second 
person location marker in parenthesis when a signer does not indicate 
one but it's essential to the understanding?

Bill


Ingvild Roald wrote:
> Actually, I do not agree with Val that the job is to write what is 
> seen on the video. That will not get the message of the original story 
> across. This is maybe one of the reasons we really need to sign 
> languages: that the video translation is not a full translation form 
> English (or Greek) to ASL, but a partial one. With the written form, 
> we are able to bring in the second person, not visible in the video.
>
> Thus, I prefer the first version, with the 'invisible' person present
>
> Ingvild
>
>
>
> > From: sutton at signwriting.org
> > To: sw-l at majordomo.valenciacc.edu
> > Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 12:20:23 -0700
> > CC: josignj at aol.com
> > Subject: [sw-l] invisible person in ASL storytelling...
> >
> > SignWriting List
> > September 16, 2009
> >
> > On Sep 15, 2009, at 12:32 PM, Valerie Sutton wrote:
> > > I am watching a video (if you can see the video it is the Bible,
> > > Mark 07_31-37 at .43 on the counter). Jesus is healing a Deaf/Mute
> > > man. -- First Jesus sticks his fingers into the mans ears and then
> > > removes them.---- So how do I show to whom Jesus to doing this to...
> >
> > Hello Jonita and everyone -
> > You are writing from an ASL videotape that Deaf Missions made of the
> > Bible. The signer is Patrick Graybill, and he did an excellent
> > description of Jesus placing his index fingers in a Deaf man's ears to
> > heal him...when he signed this story, Patrick did not have a real
> > person to place his index fingers into...he had to show this story in
> > ASL, without anyone else standing in front of him...
> >
> > So your job is to try to write what you see Patrick do on the video...
> >
> > Everyone sees things a little differently, but here is my writing of
> > this position and movement, plus attached are clips from the video of
> > Patrick...
> >
> > How did I write this?
> >
> > 1. First I place the shoulders and head facing the left front corner
> >
> > 2. Second, I write the hands in the sign over to the left side of the
> > head and shoulders, like this:
> >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
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