AW: Request for comment on a technical SignWriting document

Thu Dec 23 22:24:48 UTC 2010

Hello Steve! Hi Valerie! 

What a remarkable work.

Well I am no expert regarding any software programming - so I just
concentrate on other things in my feedback. 

First of all congratulations!!!!

For advanced SignWriting friends this is a wonderful document to get a quick
overview - well the more you already know about SignWriting the better you
understand every paragraph of your well prepared presentation. And it is so
much fun to look at different aspects from your perspective. 

The presentation of the different categories is perfect! 

In the beginning you ask everybody to study carefully the Copyright Notice

I followed your link about copyright issues - Wow lots and lots of pdf
Documents. 

http://trustee.ietf.org/license-info/

Well I do not understand the specifics - is there anything people like me
who create teaching materials for workshops or handouts and presentations
have to keep in mind??? in a very specific way? 

---

I like very much your precise description of the hierarchy of symbols and
concepts!

"1.1.  Script

SignWriting is the universal script for writing any sign language."

Yes Sign languages can be written!! Big smile!

"The graphemes of SignWriting are visually iconic."

Well - mh perhaps I would agree if you would say...  "Many graphemes .." 

It is a big advantage of SignWriting that you understand the meaning of
hundreds and thousands of signs just if you understood the concept behind
it. 

Many signs can be seen as "visually iconic" ... on the other hand there is
quite a number of symbols that are not ... (my point of view) 

I think it is important to understand the terminology - and you did a great
job to explain : script - graphem - cluster - 

"Understanding the ratios of size and shape for the graphemes improves hand
writing."  Big smile - In the beginning of my SignWriting studies (almost 11
years ago) I spent so many hours to understand this!!! And it is so
important if it comes down to graphem-design!! 

-----------

"Manual vector based refinements for all hand shapes should be completed
before 2011." 

What is this? So you are going to create a complete set of symbols as vector
based symbols. No more pixel-graphics anymore?? 

--- 

"Each cluster represents a sign (or word) of a sign language. Punctuation
divides the clusters into sentences." 

Well there is quite a number of clusters representing no signs or words but
just some kind of performance. (movement - dance - feelings, gestures just
for fun  )

---

Hi Steve - thanks for this comment. 

"Occasionally, the signs are arranged horizontally from left to right."

So you will offer a SignPuddle that will allow to vote for vertical or
horizontal writing? Would be great... 

There are quite a number of occasions - and in the days of Windows 98 most
of the documents had been written with SW44 from left to right. 

I am very interested to find out what I do think about this in ten years
from now - smile. Well as long as I focus on SignWriting as a concept to be
used in bilingual education of deaf students I prefer horizontal writing.
This allows to create worksheets written in sign language with or without
subtitles. 

---

"The design (Section 2 (ISWA 2010 Design)) balances complexity, efficiency,
and usability."

I would mention that the basic concepts allow to forget about the huge
number of the incredible 36,600 graphemes 

---

“3 classes: featural, phonemic, and composite. “ 

I would be happy to understand this – is there a chance to add some examples
?

“The first 3 fills are understood from the expressive viewpoint: signs as
seen by the signer. The last 3 fills are understood from the overhead
viewpoint: signs as seen when looking down on the signer. “ 

Well, I would prefer a different explanation since we read and write
everything from the expressive viewpoint.  – 

What about wall – plane and floor – plane?  (Valerie should know what I am
talking about.)

05

Overhead

a grapheme with a half black palm and broken line

palm facing to the side of the signer

Well – “ palm facing to the side of the signer” if you look at rotation 0
Degrees from top. - = fingers straight forward

03

a grapheme with a thin, unconnected arrow head

spatial overlapping of movement arrows for the left and write hands

(same if both hands move as a unit) 

Perhaps you can point out that there are different arrowheads for Head,
Eyes, fingers, - compared to  lower-arm movements. 

“The rotation modifier can best be understood through the hand symbols. The
first 8 rotations progress 45 degrees counter clockwise. The last 8
rotations progress 45 degrees clockwise. Zero (0) degrees is understood to
point to the top of the grapheme. “

Perhaps the reader should understand that the last 8 rotation represent a
mirrored hand shape. (Very often representing the right or the left hand) 

Otherwise why should we go both directions clockwise and counter clockwise. 

I had to look for this symbol - 01-06-017-01-03-10  - nice hint to make
people wonder.  – smile 

“ The 7 Categories of the ISWA 2010 

Cat

Purpose

Name

Description

1

Writing

Hands

Handshapes from over 40 Sign Languages are placed in 10 groups based on the
numbers 1-10 in American Sign Language.

Perhaps you can mention the impressive  number of  the many different
handshapes... ;-) 

2

Writing

Movement

Contact symbols, small finger movements, straight arrows, curved arrows and
circles are placed into 10 groups based on planes: The Front Wall Plane
includes movement that is "parallel to the front wall" and the Floor Plane
includes movement that is "parallel to the floor".

Perhaps you want to add: 

Movements of boddy, head, eyes, mouth, nose, tongue ... are described
elsewhere..(#4 #5head and body) 

“B.2.3.  Display

For rows, the height represents the horizontal length in common with all
canvases. Sign text for display defines the top left of every canvas as 0,0
and ...”

I do not understand!  Can you explain once more? 

“There is one space from a sign to a punctuation. There are 2 spaces after a
punctuation.”

Yes – this is great! 

“justify option number: 1, 2, 3 Justify 1 pulls punctuation to the end of a
column or row by moving signs closer together. Justify 2 pushes sign apart
to evenly cover a column or row. Justify 3 will both pull punctuation and
push signs.“

Wow – I love to experiment with that!! 

“B.3.2.  Index

For a set of signs, each sign can be indexed by the base characters of the
symbols in the sign cluster. This index can be used to create a symbol
frequency. This index can be used to quickly generate a list of potential
signs to search. “

Great !!! 

What a great document Steve! And Valerie – looking at all the symbols and
categories – nobody can imagine how much energy and time both of you
invested into this accomplishment. 

Congrats and thank you so much for sharing with us. 

Stefan ;-)

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: SignWriting List: Read and Write Sign Languages
[mailto:SW-L at LISTSERV.VALENCIACC.EDU] Im Auftrag von Steve Slevinski
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 23. Dezember 2010 14:11
An: SW-L at LISTSERV.VALENCIACC.EDU
Betreff: Request for comment on a technical SignWriting document

Hi List,

I'm about to submit a technical document on encoding the graphemes of 

the SignWriting script.  I will be submitting the document New Years 

Day.  Although there are a lot of technical details, I'd appreciate any 

feedback.

http://www.signpuddle.net/draft-slevinski-iswa-2010-pre.html

The main body includes sections on the SignWriting script, the 

International SignWriting Alphabet 2010, the x-ISWA-2010 coded character 

set, and Unicode integration.

Appendix A is table data for the ISWA 2010 categories, groups, and bases.

Appendix B is the Binary SignWriting revision 3 reference with sections 

on design, validity, and processing.

Regards,

-Steve

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: SignWriting List: Read and Write Sign Languages
[mailto:SW-L at LISTSERV.VALENCIACC.EDU] Im Auftrag von Steve Slevinski
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 23. Dezember 2010 14:11
An: SW-L at LISTSERV.VALENCIACC.EDU
Betreff: Request for comment on a technical SignWriting document