signspelling sequence

Thu Feb 11 17:16:46 UTC 2010

Dear Honza, Val, and Steve,

I think in terms of "Sign-Symbol-Sequence" we have to carefully state that this is new territory for any signed language.  Even the most ancient of signed languages (like Tibetan) did not have a standard way of writing the languages down for reading and writing and dictionaries.  

We are creating the use of the "Sign-Symbol-Sequence" for many purposes.  Looking up signs individually in a dictionary that does not contain a spoken language is one very strong use.  Using that sequence to sort for comparing with another writing system, like HamNoSys is another.  Both approach the sign as a whole, what do you record first, what do you record second, what do you record third, as that is the way a computer thinks.  People see a hand and a motion as one thing, but then a camera sees many images of that hand and many pieces of the motion to be able to sequence it for an avatar, a different purpose altogether.  

If the Sign-Symbol-Sequence can help one analyze the parts of a given sign of handshape, motion, contact, speed, sequence, and so forth, then that can be compared between SignWriting and HamNoSys as both are analyzing a sign in parts.  

A motion picture has many more thousand parts to analyze, so it serves a different purpose.  It, however, can use the avatar of a hand to move that hand along the curve of a SignWriting curve, so knowing, from the code, that this hand moves along this approximate curve can enable SignWriting and the Sign-Symbol-Sequence to help one program an avatar, but an avatar needs more information, or at least more analysis, to show a complete sequence in motion. 

Charles

________________________________
From: Honza <honza at ruce.cz>
To: SignWriting List <sw-l at majordomo.valenciacc.edu>
Sent: Thu, February 11, 2010 8:36:08 AM
Subject: Re: [sw-l] signspelling sequence

Hi Val and Steve,

I have already seen that "analyze etc.."
But what is the right goal of "sequence". Was it created just for
sorting signs by that in dictionaries or are there more purposes?
I wander if there are rules how to write sequence correctly.

I am now working on automatic convertor within signwriting and
hamnosys. I thought it could be useful for that.
I don't know if anyone has ever try to do it.

Honza

On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 4:45 PM, Valerie Sutton <sutton at signwriting.org> wrote:
> SignWriting List
> February 10, 2010
>
> On Feb 10, 2010, at 6:53 AM, Honza wrote:
>> sorry If you explain this already, but I haven´t foud it in recent posts.
>> Can you explain me why in SignPuddle is SignSpelling and Sequence?
>> Are there any rules for writing Sequence?
>> it is important.
>
> Hello Honza!
>
> A SignSpelling is the way a sign is written...the way the sign looks, in a visual cluster, when we read signs.
>
> A SignSpelling Sequence is for computer-sorting of signs in dictionaries. Which handshape starts the sign? Which symbol ends the sign? This is needed because in dictionaries, we look up by Sign-Symbols. There are two important processes needed to sort dictionaries by Sign-Symbols. First, you need to know the sequence of symbols within each sign. Second, those SignSpelling Sequences are then sorted by the SignWriting alphabetical order of symbols in the ISWA, which I call the Sign-Symbol-Sequence.
>
> Here is a small booklet called SignSpelling Guidelines 2008. I actually want to re-write and expand upon this manual. It is based on my experience with sorting around 3000-4000 signs, and printing the listing of the signs sorted by Sign-Symbols, and what i personally found was true when people tried to find a sign in the listing...I know there are many theories on what the SignSpelling Sequence rules should be, and I am open to all of them...this booklet just shows my experience with looking up signs...
>
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> Also Steve Slevinski has placed some cool new features in SignPuddle. Under each sign or document in SignPuddle, you will see an Analyze link...Click on that Analyze Link. Try it with both a single sign-entry in SignPuddle, and also with a real document with sentences in SignPuddle. Click on Analyze and then click on Sort (see screen capture attached). It will show you the "automated" SignSpelling Sequences for each sign in that document...Automated SignSpelling Sequences are the computer's best-guesses as to what the SignSpelling Sequence should be, based on the ISWA, but if a person has manually changed the SignSpelling Sequence in SignPuddle, then it will show that...(I believe that is true...is this correct, Steve?)...wonderful software for all of us to analyze signs and documents!
>
> Val ;-)
>
> see attached...
>
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