SWML site

Fri Feb 26 15:25:44 UTC 2010

SignWriting List
February 25, 2010

Hello Kate and Steve and Charles -
It is great to see how useful BSW is for programming...

There is one interesting issue I would like to bring up...

Since the SignSpelling Sequences are put in manually by the writer, and since there are several different theories on what the Sequence should be, it means that programmers who do not know sign language or SignWriting, if they depend entirely on the sequences entered by others, may receive an inconsistent group of sequences....

The ASL Dictionary puddle online is a free and open database that has not been edited much...Any writer is welcome to add signs and their own feelings on what the SignSpelling Sequence should be...some people are still learning to write signs, and others are new to the software and are learning how to use it, and others are new to adding Sequences...so the inconsistency may be confusing for your poor avatar! ;-))

And I suspect that the SignSpelling Sequences used for programming an avatar might be different than the sequences used for sorting dictionaries for deaf children...because I would assume that the programming needs more detail to really see the exact location for the avatar, but when deaf children are looking up signs in dictionaries, my experiences so far show, that detailed SignSpelling Sequences are not necessary for simple look-ups...however, my experiences are not a real research study at all...just my guess...so a real study does need to be done, to find out what theory on SignSpelling Sequences works best for everyday use, and what is necessary for other projects, such as programming for avatars...

And Kate...you mentioned you thought it was automatic...Steve is working on the idea of "automated" SignSpelling Sequences that could be the computer's "best guess" at the sequence, based on the alphabetical order of the symbols in the ISWA, and so forth, but then the writer can still go in and change the automated sequences, when necessary...that will be a WONDERFUL step forward, because oftentimes the automated sequences are pretty close to what the writer would have chosen anyway...however...the automated Sequences have not been programmed yet into SignPuddle, so right now we are required to do the sequences manually every time we write a sign...

You can find the automated and manually created SignSpelling Sequences for each sign in SignPuddle right now, when you click on the BSW Analyze button under each sign in SignPuddle...

And when SignPuddle 2.0 is released, we will be able to have SignSpelling Sequences in the signs inside documents too, so we will be able to search documents for symbol frequency and so forth...I wish those could be automated as well...

so for your avatar work, I might do another sequence than I would for deaf children -

for your avatar work, I would put in more detailed Location Markers from Group 30, in the sequence, so your avatar would know some details of location for exact sign production...although I may be wrong...maybe your animation can move just as well without it and if so that is super!

Val ;-)

On Feb 25, 2010, at 6:58 PM, Steve Slevinski wrote:

> Hi Kate,
> 
> Yes, the <seq> tag represents a symbol in the SignSpelling Sequence.  If a sign doesn't have any <seq> tags in the XML, then the sign entry does not include a SignSpelling Sequence.  The sequence is manually entered.
> 
> You can use the new SignText online.  I'll have the new SWIS downloads ready in early March.
> 
> 
> Considering the sign in your email, an ASL puddle sign for deaf, we can look at it together:
> http://signbank.org/signpuddle1.5/canvas.php?ui=1&sgn=4&sid=5206
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> 
> 
> This sign contains 2 parts, the spelling and the sequence.  This illustrates a good point, that the spelling and the sequence do not have to use the same symbols.
> 
> 
> The symbol "dea0" only appears in the spelling.
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> 
> 
> The symbol "de06" is used in the sequence.
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> 
> 
> 
> Whoever wrote this sign thought the symbol "de06" would sort more accurately if used in the sequence, but they thought the simpler symbol "dea0" was better for the spelling.
> 
> 
> That's the thing about the spelling and the sequence.  They are each entered manually and they don't have to use the same symbols, even though they most often do use the same symbols.
> 
> 
> At the end of the sequence, we see the symbol "5ec0" repeated twice.
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> 
> 
> The contact is assumed in the spelling without using a symbol.  But now that I look at the sequence in more detail, I see that it's written incorrectly.  A single contact should have been used, or the sign should have been written differently.  As it stands, I'd have written the sequence as:
> 
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> 
> 
> You should be able to see syllable 1, the starting handshape.  Syllable 2, movement between syllable 1 and 3.  Syllable 3, ending handshapes.  Syllable 4, location and facial expression.
> 
> Regards,
> -Steve
> 
> 
> 
> 
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