Automated SignSpelling Sequences

Rachel Channon rchannon at SPEAKEASY.NET
Sun Feb 28 03:05:05 UTC 2010 

I looked at the SignSpelling sequences for a few signs, but admit that I
don't yet fully understand everything I see.  I will have to start working
on that soon....
Rachel

-----Original Message-----
From: sw-l-bounces at majordomo.valenciacc.edu
[mailto:sw-l-bounces at majordomo.valenciacc.edu] On Behalf Of Valerie Sutton
Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 12:49 PM
To: SignWriting List
Subject: [sw-l] Automated SignSpelling Sequences

SignWriting List
February 26, 2010

Hello Rachel, Charles, Steve and everyone -

Steve has already programmed an "automated" SignSpelling Sequence. The
automated version of the SignSpelling Sequence is not perfect, but it is
very close to "one" theory on how to arrange the sequence...Based on the
dominant hand first, and the second hand second, in the beginning
handshapes...and so forth...

The automated SignSpelling Sequence has not been placed into the actual
SignPuddle software yet, but right now, you can take a look at the automated
SignSpelling Sequences by clicking on the BSW Analyze button under each sign
in SignPuddle Online, and it will show you an "automated" SignSpelling
Sequence, IF the writer did not already state what the SignSpelling Sequence
should be...the good thing about this is that then, if someone forgets to
put in the SignSpelling Sequence in their own way, then the "default" will
kick in...

The default is not based on what symbol we wrote first...if we did that,
then the Sequences would be a total mess! We would literally have to
re-write every sign in SignPuddle, since no one has been asked to write in a
certain sequence...For example, when I write a sign that is relating to the
face...I write the face first, and then place the hand near the part of the
face that the handshape is relating to...if we based the automation on what
I wrote first, then the sign would begin with the facial expression, instead
of the handshape...so that is why we programmed the automation
differently...but it is working...I am really impressed with how close Steve
has gotten the automation to work, based on the dominant hand that begins
the sign...

The automated SignSpelling Sequences do not use the Detailed Location
Markers in SymbolGroup 30, which I believe you might want for the SignTyp
linguistic database...

The Detailed Location Markers are not written at all, for everyday use. They
don't exist in the writing of the sign, because we can see the Location in a
different way, when writing for everyday use. So the automated SignSpelling
Sequences cannot include those symbols, since they are not written.

BUT...we can go in manually and place the Detailed Location Markers into any
SignSpelling Sequence we want to...so this means that we, the transcribers,
working on the SignTyp database, will have the job to go in and place those
Detailed Location Markers into the SignSpelling Sequence data...It will be a
fun job!

Thank you, Rachel and Charles, for these discussions, and for working with
SignWriting and SignTyp - I am really looking forward to using SignTyp in
the future...I know it will be a valuable database...;-)

Val ;-)

--------------



On Feb 26, 2010, at 5:17 PM, Rachel Channon wrote:

> Hello - I really like the idea of setting up a "default"
> SignSpellingSequence.  I wonder if it could be done on the basis of 
> the order in which the person puts the symbols in the  SignWriting 
> composition area.  So for a sign like ASL WOMAN where the hand touches 
> the chin and then the chest, the writer might start by putting a 
> symbol for the face in the area.  Then they move the hand-orientation 
> symbol to the chin.  Then they add a second hand symbol at chest 
> level.  Then the default sequence for hand location would be hand-at-chin
followed by hand-at-chest.
> 
> (please forgive and correct any terminology errors here).
> Rachel
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: sw-l-bounces at majordomo.valenciacc.edu
> [mailto:sw-l-bounces at majordomo.valenciacc.edu] On Behalf Of 
> SignWriting
> Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 10:26 AM
> To: SignWriting List
> Subject: Re: [sw-l] SWML site
> 
> SignWriting List
> February 25, 2010
> 
> Hello Kate and Steve and Charles -
> It is great to see how useful BSW is for programming...
> 
> There is one interesting issue I would like to bring up...
> 
> Since the SignSpelling Sequences are put in manually by the writer, 
> and since there are several different theories on what the Sequence 
> should be, it means that programmers who do not know sign language or 
> SignWriting, if they depend entirely on the sequences entered by 
> others, may receive an inconsistent group of sequences....
> 
> The ASL Dictionary puddle online is a free and open database that has 
> not been edited much...Any writer is welcome to add signs and their 
> own feelings on what the SignSpelling Sequence should be...some people 
> are still learning to write signs, and others are new to the software 
> and are learning how to use it, and others are new to adding 
> Sequences...so the inconsistency may be confusing for your poor 
> avatar! ;-))
> 
> And I suspect that the SignSpelling Sequences used for programming an 
> avatar might be different than the sequences used for sorting 
> dictionaries for deaf children...because I would assume that the 
> programming needs more detail to really see the exact location for the 
> avatar, but when deaf children are looking up signs in dictionaries, 
> my experiences so far show, that detailed SignSpelling Sequences are 
> not necessary for simple look-ups...however, my experiences are not a 
> real research study at all...just my guess...so a real study does need 
> to be done, to find out what theory on SignSpelling Sequences works 
> best for everyday use, and what is necessary for other projects, such as
programming for avatars...
> 
> And Kate...you mentioned you thought it was automatic...Steve is 
> working on the idea of "automated" SignSpelling Sequences that could 
> be the computer's "best guess" at the sequence, based on the 
> alphabetical order of the symbols in the ISWA, and so forth, but then 
> the writer can still go in and change the automated sequences, when 
> necessary...that will be a WONDERFUL step forward, because oftentimes 
> the automated sequences are pretty close to what the writer would have 
> chosen anyway...however...the automated Sequences have not been 
> programmed yet into SignPuddle, so right now we are required to do the
sequences manually every time we write a sign...
> 
> You can find the automated and manually created SignSpelling Sequences 
> for each sign in SignPuddle right now, when you click on the BSW 
> Analyze button under each sign in SignPuddle...
> 
> And when SignPuddle 2.0 is released, we will be able to have 
> SignSpelling Sequences in the signs inside documents too, so we will 
> be able to search documents for symbol frequency and so forth...I wish 
> those could be automated as well...
> 
> so for your avatar work, I might do another sequence than I would for 
> deaf children -
> 
> for your avatar work, I would put in more detailed Location Markers 
> from Group 30, in the sequence, so your avatar would know some details 
> of location for exact sign production...although I may be 
> wrong...maybe your animation can move just as well without it and if so
that is super!
> 
> Val ;-)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Feb 25, 2010, at 6:58 PM, Steve Slevinski wrote:
> 
>> Hi Kate,
>> 
>> Yes, the <seq> tag represents a symbol in the SignSpelling Sequence.  
>> If a
> sign doesn't have any <seq> tags in the XML, then the sign entry does 
> not include a SignSpelling Sequence.  The sequence is manually entered.
>> 
>> You can use the new SignText online.  I'll have the new SWIS 
>> downloads
> ready in early March.
>> 
>> 
>> Considering the sign in your email, an ASL puddle sign for deaf, we 
>> can
> look at it together:
>> http://signbank.org/signpuddle1.5/canvas.php?ui=1&sgn=4&sid=5206
> 





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