Automated SignSpelling Sequences

Wed Mar 3 09:21:13 UTC 2010

Hi Val

I really love the idea of "automated" SignSpelling, which I think is best
for avatar work.
There should be one standard way of writing SignSpelling sequence.
The "automated" SignSpelling is/will be consisted, less confusion!

Some of the SignSpelling sequence on Signpuddle are 'mispelled' ( I think )

I'm not using Location Markers, Val. But once I've uploaded my project
online,
 then you can evaluate it.

When will the "automated" SignSpelling be available for download, I cant
wait!

Kate

On Sat, Feb 27, 2010 at 7:49 PM, Valerie Sutton <sutton at signwriting.org>wrote:

> SignWriting List
> February 26, 2010
>
> Hello Rachel, Charles, Steve and everyone -
>
> Steve has already programmed an "automated" SignSpelling Sequence. The
> automated version of the SignSpelling Sequence is not perfect, but it is
> very close to "one" theory on how to arrange the sequence...Based on the
> dominant hand first, and the second hand second, in the beginning
> handshapes...and so forth...
>
> The automated SignSpelling Sequence has not been placed into the actual
> SignPuddle software yet, but right now, you can take a look at the automated
> SignSpelling Sequences by clicking on the BSW Analyze button under each sign
> in SignPuddle Online, and it will show you an "automated" SignSpelling
> Sequence, IF the writer did not already state what the SignSpelling Sequence
> should be...the good thing about this is that then, if someone forgets to
> put in the SignSpelling Sequence in their own way, then the "default" will
> kick in...
>
> The default is not based on what symbol we wrote first...if we did that,
> then the Sequences would be a total mess! We would literally have to
> re-write every sign in SignPuddle, since no one has been asked to write in a
> certain sequence...For example, when I write a sign that is relating to the
> face...I write the face first, and then place the hand near the part of the
> face that the handshape is relating to...if we based the automation on what
> I wrote first, then the sign would begin with the facial expression, instead
> of the handshape...so that is why we programmed the automation
> differently...but it is working...I am really impressed with how close Steve
> has gotten the automation to work, based on the dominant hand that begins
> the sign...
>
> The automated SignSpelling Sequences do not use the Detailed Location
> Markers in SymbolGroup 30, which I believe you might want for the SignTyp
> linguistic database...
>
> The Detailed Location Markers are not written at all, for everyday use.
> They don't exist in the writing of the sign, because we can see the Location
> in a different way, when writing for everyday use. So the automated
> SignSpelling Sequences cannot include those symbols, since they are not
> written.
>
> BUT...we can go in manually and place the Detailed Location Markers into
> any SignSpelling Sequence we want to...so this means that we, the
> transcribers, working on the SignTyp database, will have the job to go in
> and place those Detailed Location Markers into the SignSpelling Sequence
> data...It will be a fun job!
>
> Thank you, Rachel and Charles, for these discussions, and for working with
> SignWriting and SignTyp - I am really looking forward to using SignTyp in
> the future...I know it will be a valuable database...;-)
>
> Val ;-)
>
> --------------
>
>
>
> On Feb 26, 2010, at 5:17 PM, Rachel Channon wrote:
>
> > Hello - I really like the idea of setting up a "default"
> > SignSpellingSequence.  I wonder if it could be done on the basis of the
> > order in which the person puts the symbols in the  SignWriting
> composition
> > area.  So for a sign like ASL WOMAN where the hand touches the chin and
> then
> > the chest, the writer might start by putting a symbol for the face in the
> > area.  Then they move the hand-orientation symbol to the chin.  Then they
> > add a second hand symbol at chest level.  Then the default sequence for
> hand
> > location would be hand-at-chin followed by hand-at-chest.
> >
> > (please forgive and correct any terminology errors here).
> > Rachel
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: sw-l-bounces at majordomo.valenciacc.edu
> > [mailto:sw-l-bounces at majordomo.valenciacc.edu] On Behalf Of SignWriting
> > Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 10:26 AM
> > To: SignWriting List
> > Subject: Re: [sw-l] SWML site
> >
> > SignWriting List
> > February 25, 2010
> >
> > Hello Kate and Steve and Charles -
> > It is great to see how useful BSW is for programming...
> >
> > There is one interesting issue I would like to bring up...
> >
> > Since the SignSpelling Sequences are put in manually by the writer, and
> > since there are several different theories on what the Sequence should
> be,
> > it means that programmers who do not know sign language or SignWriting,
> if
> > they depend entirely on the sequences entered by others, may receive an
> > inconsistent group of sequences....
> >
> > The ASL Dictionary puddle online is a free and open database that has not
> > been edited much...Any writer is welcome to add signs and their own
> feelings
> > on what the SignSpelling Sequence should be...some people are still
> learning
> > to write signs, and others are new to the software and are learning how
> to
> > use it, and others are new to adding Sequences...so the inconsistency may
> be
> > confusing for your poor avatar! ;-))
> >
> > And I suspect that the SignSpelling Sequences used for programming an
> avatar
> > might be different than the sequences used for sorting dictionaries for
> deaf
> > children...because I would assume that the programming needs more detail
> to
> > really see the exact location for the avatar, but when deaf children are
> > looking up signs in dictionaries, my experiences so far show, that
> detailed
> > SignSpelling Sequences are not necessary for simple look-ups...however,
> my
> > experiences are not a real research study at all...just my guess...so a
> real
> > study does need to be done, to find out what theory on SignSpelling
> > Sequences works best for everyday use, and what is necessary for other
> > projects, such as programming for avatars...
> >
> > And Kate...you mentioned you thought it was automatic...Steve is working
> on
> > the idea of "automated" SignSpelling Sequences that could be the
> computer's
> > "best guess" at the sequence, based on the alphabetical order of the
> symbols
> > in the ISWA, and so forth, but then the writer can still go in and change
> > the automated sequences, when necessary...that will be a WONDERFUL step
> > forward, because oftentimes the automated sequences are pretty close to
> what
> > the writer would have chosen anyway...however...the automated Sequences
> have
> > not been programmed yet into SignPuddle, so right now we are required to
> do
> > the sequences manually every time we write a sign...
> >
> > You can find the automated and manually created SignSpelling Sequences
> for
> > each sign in SignPuddle right now, when you click on the BSW Analyze
> button
> > under each sign in SignPuddle...
> >
> > And when SignPuddle 2.0 is released, we will be able to have SignSpelling
> > Sequences in the signs inside documents too, so we will be able to search
> > documents for symbol frequency and so forth...I wish those could be
> > automated as well...
> >
> > so for your avatar work, I might do another sequence than I would for
> deaf
> > children -
> >
> > for your avatar work, I would put in more detailed Location Markers from
> > Group 30, in the sequence, so your avatar would know some details of
> > location for exact sign production...although I may be wrong...maybe your
> > animation can move just as well without it and if so that is super!
> >
> > Val ;-)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Feb 25, 2010, at 6:58 PM, Steve Slevinski wrote:
> >
> >> Hi Kate,
> >>
> >> Yes, the <seq> tag represents a symbol in the SignSpelling Sequence.  If
> a
> > sign doesn't have any <seq> tags in the XML, then the sign entry does not
> > include a SignSpelling Sequence.  The sequence is manually entered.
> >>
> >> You can use the new SignText online.  I'll have the new SWIS downloads
> > ready in early March.
> >>
> >>
> >> Considering the sign in your email, an ASL puddle sign for deaf, we can
> > look at it together:
> >> http://signbank.org/signpuddle1.5/canvas.php?ui=1&sgn=4&sid=5206
> >
>
>
>
>
>
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