Query on SignWriting - Editing problem

Fri Jun 3 16:45:00 UTC 2011

The way that I understand the timing symbols is that they just add information to how the sign is produced rather than changing how a sign is produced. That is why I don't usually write with the timing symbols because the arrows usually are enough. If I were to try to sign the first writing, I would get:

Kinda difficult to do, honestly, which is why I did it so slowly. ;-)

The second writing could be written with the alternating symbol just the same as it is written and it would be read as:

So the important thing to remember is that the simultaneous and alternate symbols do not change how any of the arrows are read. They are just there to help people understand what the arrows already say (ie add more information).

Adam

On Jun 3, 2011, at 8:27 AM, Charles Butler wrote:

> Thanks to all, I am currently confused on simultaneous and alternate symbols. I'm trying to write "brincadeira" and am looking to see which of the following is easier to read, and whether or not they are doable.
>  
> I would read this sign as both hands moving together like a rowboat. In the lessons it seems that this would be alternate motion on hands, with a single arc meaning rowboat.  Am I misinterpreting? I don't want to be teaching wrong.
>  
> 
>  
> Adam suggested something like this so that the hands are moving simultaneously but starting at different points. I had thought that the "alternating" row showed that so that both hands could be shown with the same motion, but it comes out looking wrong to me. 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> From: Charles Butler <chazzer3332000 at YAHOO.COM>
> To: SW-L at LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU
> Sent: Friday, June 3, 2011 8:25 AM
> Subject: Re: Query on SignWriting - Editing problem
> 
> Stephen, I tried to go in and fix my signs but even in EDIT mode, all I do is go into "Create Sign" mode.  Is there something wrong with the server. I am trying to Fix signs and I don't want to have to create a sign from scratch.
> 
> I go to SignPuddle Brazilian sign language, I sign in so I can be an editor for signs. I go to a sign, and I touch "the create sign" box which usually opens the CURRENT sign box so that I can fix it.  Now it simply goes to Create sign, which means, effectively, I have to start over from scratch when I'm trying to adjust a sign.
> 
> Please check this feature, as I am doing a massive edit and ordering project and need to be able to edit, not be blocked, even from signs that I have put in myself, from adjusting them to be correct.
> 
> Charles
> 
> 
> From: Charles Butler <chazzer3332000 at yahoo.com>
> To: Charles Butler <chazzer3332000 at yahoo.com>; "SW-L at LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU" <SW-L at LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU>
> Sent: Friday, June 3, 2011 8:10 AM
> Subject: Re: Query on SignWriting - I believe this is an error.
> 
> I'm going to fix these, as the arrows are not working in any of the posted listings on the LIBRAS sign puddle.
> 
> Charles
> 
> 
> From: Charles Butler <chazzer3332000 at YAHOO.COM>
> To: SW-L at LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU
> Sent: Thursday, June 2, 2011 3:22 PM
> Subject: Re: Query on SignWriting - I believe this is an error.
> 
> I agree, the simultaneous lines tend to be confusing, but part of it is to ensure that they start at opposite points on the wheel (like a bicycle) and move forward.  I've send this to Fernando Capovilla to check as well, as the dictionary citation seems to show movement forward (as you have written.
>  
> Charles
>  
> 
> From: Adam Frost <frost at SIGNWRITING.ORG>
> To: SW-L at LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU
> Sent: Thursday, June 2, 2011 3:12 PM
> Subject: Re: Query on SignWriting - I believe this is an error.
> 
> I just notice that this is not going to the list for some reason. It looks as though the reply feature is not going to the list like it used to. Hmm...
> 
> Adam
> 
> On Jun 2, 2011, at 12:06 PM, Adam Frost wrote:
> 
>> The alternating time symbols is basically saying that while both hands move on the same path, they start on the opposite ends. So the way that you have it written could work if both arrows were moving in the same directions. It still seems you have both on the same path starting on opposite ends, but going in the opposite directions. You actually don't need to have the timing symbols at all if you have the movement arrows correct. I also think it gets more confusing when you try to make it so that it works with the timing symbols, so I would personally write it this way:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Adam
>> 
>> On Jun 2, 2011, at 11:52 AM, Charles Butler wrote:
>> 
>>>  How about this? 
>>> 
>>> From: Adam Frost <icemandeaf at gmail.com>
>>> To: Charles Butler <chazzer3332000 at yahoo.com>
>>> Sent: Thursday, June 2, 2011 2:20 PM
>>> Subject: Re: Query on SignWriting - I believe this is an error.
>>> 
>>> Actually I can not perform either movements because the left hand is moving, from close, up and outward while the right hand is moving, from far, up and inward. So I would see it as either of the two following whether the alternating time symbol or the same time symbol is used.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> The timing symbols that you purposed is actually where one hand moves while the other rests, so to speak, which isn't what was done in the video.
>>> 
>>> Adam
>>> 
>>> On Jun 2, 2011, at 10:41 AM, Charles Butler wrote:
>>> 
>>>>  This is the sign for Brincadeira (toy) in Libras (according to the writing on SignPuddle)
>>>>  
>>>> http://www.acessobrasil.org.br/libras/  (if one looks up brincadeira on this public LIBRAS website, the simultaneous line, I believe to be wrong.
>>>>  
>>>>  I have added brincadeira with alternating motion to the SignPuddle.  I believe the other two signs need to be corrected. Note the hands move one and then the other, like a bicycle, not a rowboat. The difference is the simultaneous line.
>>>>  
>>>>  
>>>> Charles
>>>>  
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
> 
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> 

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