AW: Clown hand orientation.

Charles Butler chazzer3332000 at YAHOO.COM
Tue Sep 13 17:43:23 UTC 2011

In this case, the thumb is at the top and the hand is clearly pointing to the right, that is a 90 degree from straight up and down, so I am curious as to the answer to this as well.
If I am to rotate the hand to the upright position, then the hand that shows that position is what I am talking about. The hand needs to have one way that everyone agrees to or it is DAC-Valerie and Parkhurst-Butler as established standards, which should be documented as such. 

--- On Tue, 9/13/11, Stefan Wöhrmann <stefanwoehrmann at GOOGLEMAIL.COM> wrote:

From: Stefan Wöhrmann <stefanwoehrmann at GOOGLEMAIL.COM>
Subject: AW: Clown hand orientation.
Date: Tuesday, September 13, 2011, 1:18 PM



Hi Val, Adam, Charles,
Bill ... friends of the sw-list,  


It is interesting to
learn that there must be something about these thumb-hand-hand shapes that
seems to allow people to see it from different point of views.  


Obviously Adam and Val
see the hand in a way that Charles and me cannot understand. How hard I try I
cannot follow your explanations.  


Nevertheless I would 
love to understand the way you look at it.  

One way may be to offer a
symbol next to the foto –  


I prepared such a


In order to show the hand
orientation in your writing Bill – which is perfect from my point of view
(showing the   r i g h t   three fingers claw hand to the left – as if
holding a red nose of the clown)  

I took this foto. 



I think it is not that
much of importance for this discussion how far the hand is pointing to the
right  (20°  or 45° -- the r i g h t  hand  would show the thumb on the right
side -- ;-))) 


In this case Valerie
there is no extra rule necessary – what do you think?  


Stefan ;-)  









SignWriting List: Read and Write Sign Languages [mailto:SW-L at LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU]
Im Auftrag von Charles Butler

Gesendet: Dienstag, 13. September
2011 03:03


Betreff: Re: Clown hand


  I'd put the hand 90 degrees with the 2nd and third
  fingers on opposite sides of the nose. It's not a pinch, it's holding a red
  clown nose.  


  --- On Mon, 9/12/11, Bill Reese <wreese01 at TAMPABAY.RR.COM>

  From: Bill Reese <wreese01 at TAMPABAY.RR.COM>

  Subject: Re: AW: NEW: Clown correction


  Date: Monday, September 12, 2011, 6:22 PM 
  So if I should write it like this:


  it would be wrong one way and right another?  Looks like I would be
  saying "peuw" rather than "clown" anyways.  lol






  On 9/12/2011 4:45 PM, Valerie Sutton wrote:  
  SignWriting List  
  September 12, 2011 
  Hi Charles - 
  Thanks for this message! 
  The word intuitive is used in different ways - no
  one says the thumbs match - of course they don't! 
  But it is intuitive for us in other ways - we like
  placing the right hand on the right side of the body, because for us, it goes
  back to the old stick figure - before we used to write the arm lines attached
  to these hand symbols and they still do in Denmark and sometimes in schools,
  and since the right arm is on the right side of the body, it feels best to me
  anyway, to have the right hand on the right side of the body...but of course
  the details of the thumbs are not perfect - you are absolutely right - in the
  long run though, people do read stick figures and when you take the stick
  figure away and leave just the hands, you have the hands on the right side of
  the face - so we were never saying that the photo and the symbol match one
  hundred percent - they never have since the beginning of the system - but
  when we write, there is an intuitive feeling to the writing system anyway -
  at least that is what others tell me - I respect your concern and please go
  right ahead and write as you wish - we are just documenting what the symbols
  represent to us - 



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