both-hand arrow

Mon Feb 27 18:15:53 UTC 2012

Olá, Val tudo bem?

Entendi a sua explicação.

Mas me parece que a maioria das pessoas que usam a escrita de
sinais entenderam que; se as duas mão fazem o mesmo movimento para a mesma
direção , então usa-se seta de ponta aberta (General Arrow ) independente
se elas estão sobrepostas ou não. Um exemplo disso são os sinais extraídos do
dicionário Trilíngue  Capovilla.

Hello, Val okay?

I understood his explanation.

But it seems that most people who use writing signals understood that if both
hands are doing the same move in the same direction, then it uses open-headed
arrow (General Arrow) regardless if they are overlapping or not. An example of
this signals are extracted from the dictionary Trilingual Capovilla.

 Orgulhoso
               orientador       
original

Me parece que se tais sinais forem escritos com a seta de ponta
aberta (General Arrow ) a leitura não saíra
errada, porque entendo que as duas mão se movimentam para a mesma direção.

It seems to me that such signs are
written with the open-headed
arrow (General Arrow) reading had not come out wrong, because I believe that both hands move in the
same direction.

¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨

Essa então seria a forma correta
de escrever os sinais acima? Me parece que nas duas grafias não haverá erro na
leitura dos sinais. 

This then would be the correct
way to write the above signs? Seems
to me that the two spellings
no error in reading
the signs.

Val, desculpe se não estou entendendo ou se fiz alguma confusão.

Val, sorry if I do not understand or did some confusion.

Beijos

Eda Amorim
Intérprete/Tradutora e Profa. de Língua Brasileira de Sinais
Especialista em Educação de Surdos

 CENTRO EDUCACIONAL CULTURA SURDA LTDA.
(11) 3416-7888 
(11) 2626-4945
(11) 9168-6761 
contato at cultursurda.com.br
www.culturasurda.com.br

Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2012 06:51:27 -0800
From: nempretonembranco at YAHOO.COM.BR
Subject: Re: both-hand arrow
To: SW-L at LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU

It will be a pleasure!I love spelling! (For the sign languages... For the oral languages , NO! NEVER! lol) 

--- Em sáb, 25/2/12, Valerie Sutton <sutton at SIGNWRITING.ORG> escreveu:

De: Valerie Sutton <sutton at SIGNWRITING.ORG>
Assunto: Re: both-hand arrow
Para: SW-L at LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU
Data: Sábado, 25 de Fevereiro de 2012, 5:31

SignWriting ListFebruary 24, 2012
You know, the General Arrow is not a "both-hand" arrow - it is an "overlapping path" arrow -
Yuri - Can I ask you a favor? Can you teach the "SignWriting in Brazil Facebook group " about Overlapping Paths in
 Portuguese?
Google Translate does not do a perfect job - Here is the Google Translation - Can you fix the Portuguese for me? Many thanks!!  Val ;-)

----------
As setas direita, esquerda e Geral estão representando "os caminhos do movimento".
 Imagine sua mão direita tem tinta preta sobre ela. Sua mão esquerda tem pintura branca. Há um caminho preto, e um caminho branco mostrando o movimento no espaço.

 Agora imagine duas mãos se movendo para baixo, lado a lado. Eles pintam dois caminhos separados no espaço ... um caminho negro e um caminho branco.

 Mas agora imaginar as duas mãos, com um acima do outro, mas não contactando ... simplesmente um acima do outro. Quando as duas mãos começam a mover-se juntos, as tintas acima um em cima do caminho do outro no fundo ... Os dois combinam caminhos ... E quando eles se misturam ... você não pode ver preto ou branco - torna-se cinza e ... de modo que o caminho é o GREY Arrowhead Geral ...

 Eles também poderiam ser entrar em contato ... mas os caminhos a preto e branco têm de se sobrepor, para se tornar cinza. Não requer contato.

 Isto é ensinado nos livros didáticos "Basics Signwriting" a partir de 2009, que é gratuito para download na web. Ir para:

 SignWriting Aulas on-line
 http://www.SignWriting.org/lessons

 e baixar o número 1 na página web - Noções básicas chamadas Signwriting.

 Aqui está o trecho do livro, na página 34 do livro (número de página no livro) ... a página PDF é a página 39 -

-----
The Right, Left and General Arrowheads are representing "movement paths".
Imagine your right hand has black paint on it. Your left hand has white paint on it. There is a black path, and a white path showing movement in space.
Now imagine two hands moving down, side by side. They paint two separate paths in space…a black path and a white path.
But now imagine the two hands with one above the other one, but NOT contacting…just simply one above the other. When the two hands start to move down together, the one above paints on top of the path of the one on the bottom…the two paths blend…and when they blend…you can no longer see black or white - it becomes grey…
 and so the GREY path is the General Arrowhead…
They could also be contacting…but the black and white paths have to overlap, to become GREY. It does not require contact.
This is taught in the textbook "SignWriting Basics" from 2009, which is free for download on the web. Go to:
SignWriting Lessons Onlinehttp://www.SignWriting.org/lessons
and download number 1 on that web page - called SignWriting Basics.
Here is the excerpt from that book, on page 34 in the
 book (number page in the book)… the PDF page is page 39 -

On Feb 24, 2012, at 6:31 PM, Yuri Barreto wrote:     Well, in an economical way, I believe that is so good ... 

--- Em sex, 24/2/12, Stefan Wöhrmann <stefanwoehrmann at GOOGLEMAIL.COM> escreveu:

De: Stefan Wöhrmann <stefanwoehrmann at GOOGLEMAIL.COM>
Assunto: AW: both-hand arrow
Para:
 SW-L at LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU
Data: Sexta-feira, 24 de Fevereiro de 2012, 19:50

Hi friends,           I would prefer this spelling
–   Stefan ;-)   

Von: SignWriting
List: Read and Write Sign Languages [mailto:SW-L at LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU] Im Auftrag von Valerie Sutton

Gesendet: Freitag, 24. Februar
2012 21:30

An:
SW-L at LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU

Betreff: Re: both-hand arrow 

  SignWriting List 

February 24, 2012 

Regarding this, let me show you a really beautiful writing in
SignWriting from Brazil, by Yuri, who posted this on Facebook, and thank you,
Yuri, for this posting - I was so happy to see it - I love seeing your
SignWriting - I hope you don't mind that I point to one of your SignSpellings
;-) 

Notice the arrow in the first sign - 

In this case, for me, this is not a General Arrowhead - the two paths
are not overlapping into GREY…it would be a right and left arrowhead - The
right arrow is written over the right hand and the left arrow is written over
the left hand - the Rub symbol could be written once between the two arrows…
here is an example... 

Val ;-) 

-------- 

On Feb 24, 2012, at 12:11 PM, Valerie Sutton wrote: 

SignWriting List 

February 24, 2012 

Hello SignWriting List, Honza, Ingvild, Kimberley - 

Thank you for the question and the responses… I realize that you may be
using the General Arrowhead differently than the way I teach it…and all is ok.
Part of the reason there has been confusion is that our older textbooks did not
explain this well, in fact I believe the old textbook said "if they
contact, it is General, and that is true, but it is not the whole story… so you
can put the blame on my old textbooks ;-) 

I have wanted to explain this better for a long time…It is a subject I
had been planning to bring up here on the List, so thank you for the question
Honza - 

You see, the General Arrowhead means "Overlapping Paths". I
always imagine Marcel Marceau, the famous classic mime artist, with his hands
in black and white paint, painting imaginary paths of movement in space… 

So here is how I teach it: 

The Right, Left and General Arrowheads are representing "movement
paths". 

Imagine your right hand has black paint on it. Your left hand has white
paint on it. There is a black path, and a white path showing movement in space. 

Now imagine two hands moving down, side by side. They paint two
separate paths in space…a black path and a white path. 

But now imagine the two hands with one above the other one, but NOT
contacting…just simply one above the other. When the two hands start to move
down together, the one above paints on top of the path of the one on the
bottom…the two paths blend…and when they blend…you can no longer see black or
white - it becomes grey… and so the GREY path is the General Arrowhead… 

They could also be contacting…but the black and white paths have to
overlap, to become GREY. It does not require contact. 

This is taught in the textbook "SignWriting Basics" from
2009, which is free for download on the web. Go to: 

SignWriting Lessons Online 

http://www.SignWriting.org/lessons 

and download number 1 on that web page - called SignWriting Basics. 

Here is the excerpt from that book, on page 34 in the book (number page
in the book)… the PDF page is page 39 - 

------ 

Val ;-)

Valerie Sutton

SignWriting List moderator

sutton at signwriting.org

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