AW: AW: Design for SignPuddle 3: parts-of-speech and morphology of sign language

Fri Dec 13 23:59:48 UTC 2013

Thank you!

All best 

Stefan

  _____  

Von: SignWriting List: Read and Write Sign Languages
[mailto:SW-L at LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU] Im Auftrag von Erika
Gesendet: Freitag, 13. Dezember 2013 03:45
An: SW-L at LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU
Betreff: Re: AW: Design for SignPuddle 3: parts-of-speech and morphology of
sign language

Yes, as for the new categories, it might not be  clear to users whether
those terms (non-standard, etc) are meant to apply to the signs that are
recorded or to the particular way of spelling a given sign. At either level,
I can also imagine some problems that might arise over making that call (who
makes it, according to what criteria, etc) - issues such as those Stefan has
pointed to (applying I think the understanding of the criteria as indicating
the sign) and those Maria raises (regarding the spelling).

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 12, 2013, at 7:54 PM, "maria galea" <
<mailto:signwriting.maria at GMAIL.COM> signwriting.maria at GMAIL.COM> wrote:

Hi again!

About parts of speech, I agree with Rachel that parts of speech for sign
languages are usually not so straightforward (like English). A sign may
sometimes become a verb or noun depending on its context. For instance in
LSM, the sign DOOR can be either nominal or verbal depending on its place
within a sentence: MAN-DOOR would mean 'the man opens the door' (where it is
verbal) whereas in DOOR-BREAK the same sign is nominal meaning 'the door
broke'...but it is good to have the option to list them I guess and leave
them empty at will..

yes Valerie I definitely see the value of SignPuddle as an editing program
for all, even beginners - I just thought it would be good if Puddle could
remain accessible to all, yet become less anonymous - for instance on the
internet there are millions of blogs and billions of blog-posts but they are
rarely anonymous - and in being more transparent has its advantages :)  

Re the statuses:

* provisional
* approved
* nonstandard
* rejected

I think I understand Stefan's concern, because how can spellings be judged
when the orthography of a given sign language is not yet standardized. All
spellings are acceptable in the sense that they are all attempts towards the
representation of a sign in written form (irrespective of skill in SW).
Rather than these statuses, could you mark the spellings with the statuses
of representation 01, representation 02, representation 03 etc of a given
sign, and somehow link these different spellings of the same sign (lexeme)
under one target sign.  This would make the count of the sign entries truly
sign/lexeme counts rather than a count of every spelling? ... once again not
sure this is possible, but just thought I'd share my thoughts about it just
the same,

regards,

maria

On 12 December 2013 21:52, Stefan Woehrmann <
<mailto:stefanwoehrmann at gebaerdenschrift.de>
stefanwoehrmann at gebaerdenschrift.de> wrote:

“The biggest change will be a status for each entry.

* provisional
* approved
* nonstandard
* rejected

Hi Steve 

– I am afraid that this will cause problems – who am I to judge things like
these categories ...no – all I take care of as much as possible is to make
sure that most entries should be written correctly .. I  do not stop to
mention at any workshop or meeting that it is not the question of signing or
signlanguage what I am interested in – as a SignWriting scribe – I am
interested to write, whatever I see as a given signing – performance. That
is the reason that it is so wonderfull to add several dialects or variations
of a given sign/term ... Your new categories should be entered in private
puddles – people may hire a staff or a group of a scientific comunity may
want to think about this ... 

Just my idea 

Stefan 

“The biggest change will be a status for each entry.

* provisional
* approved
* nonstandard
* rejected

  _____  

Von: SignWriting List: Read and Write Sign Languages
[mailto:SW-L at LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU] Im Auftrag von Stephen E
Slevinski Jr
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 12. Dezember 2013 17:52
An:  <mailto:SW-L at LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU>
SW-L at LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU
Betreff: Re: AW: Design for SignPuddle 3: parts-of-speech and morphology of
sign language

On 12/12/13, 5:38 AM, Stefan Wöhrmann wrote:

Well I haven´t got the time, the knowledge, the energy to work with more
options as I do right now. I am happy that “find by word” with different
options ...and find by symbol is possible, 

For my work at school there is nothing more needed – as far as I can see
now... 

Hi Stefan,

No worries.  I'll be fixing up the current usage and adding some new
functionality.  Basic usage will stay the same and not require additional
steps or knowledge.

The biggest change will be a status for each entry.
* provisional
* approved
* nonstandard
* rejected

New entries are created as provisional.  Editors can later mark the entries
as approved, nonstandard, or rejected.

This is needed to clean up the search results and have a measure of a
dictionary's contents.

On 12/12/13, 9:57 AM, Valerie Sutton wrote:

After reading these comments, it sounds like to me it is best not to include
this feature of “morphology” in SignPuddle 3, when there may not be an
equivalent in the sign language world that matches such a term and it will
only confuse all of us - it actually could be a negative for the software.

I agree that there probably isn't a universal morphology list.  

There are so many other features in SignPuddle 3 that we need so badly
thank
you for giving us those, Steve -

Hi Val, I understand there is a lot of pain.  I'm trying to focus on what
needs done sooner rather than later. Thanks for your patience.

The initial database design is working but needs to be cleaned up.  The
design choices have far reaching implications and require serious
consideration. 

On 12/11/13, 4:53 PM, Charles Butler wrote:

My only comment is that I hope all dictionary entries don't require a
linguist to actually put them in or to find them. I have been excited about
SignWriting because it has allowed me to write what I actually sign, not
describe it in a spoken language for a third party. 

Hi Charles,

The dictionary is to help support writers of all kinds.  The additional
information is not required, but an optional description.

That will become an impossible burden to lexicographers. 

Let's not think of it as a burden, but as a possibility. 

The burden becomes impossible, and is no longer useful to an actual user of
SignWriting as a writing system, not a linguistic tool.  

Yes, SignWriting is a writing system and will stay that way.  The linguistic
additions are outside of the SignWriting script and not an integral part.

Regards,
-Steve

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