Good work,
some preliminary feedback...
The editor my want to put the title of the dictionary in roman alphabet and in SignWriting.
The editor may want to put an introduction of a few pages to the dictionary in roman alphabet and in SignWriting.
More feedback to come...
André Lemyre
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2013 08:17:42 -0700
From: signwriting at MAC.COM
Subject: Re: Technical dictionaries
To: SW-L at LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU
SignWriting ListOctober 10, 2013
Wow! This means that by coordinating the two programs, SignPuddle and SignWriter Studio, we will be able to choose a group of signs in either program, and print them to PDF in Sign Lists in SignWriter Studio - very good!
The more "printing to PDF" features you can provide, Jonathan, the more useful SignWriter Studio will become … knowing the way life is, I bet users will want different printing layouts within the PDF…like two columns, or one column lists… and lists sorted by the Roman alphabet and lists sorted by Sign-Symbol-Sequence (the sequence of SignWriting symbols in the ISWA 2010)…
I know sorting by SignWriting symbols is much harder, so I am sure sorting by the Roman alphabet will be the first step and that is a great first step -
And to be able to choose different typesetting sizes - in other words - printing the dictionary at 100 per cent size, or reducing the size so that the signs and words are maybe 50% size and so forth - smaller or larger looking signs and words -
I think it is great that you are including choice of paper size - there is a difference between A4, the world's standard paper size, and the US Letter Size, that seems to be unique to North America -
Thank you for working on printing to PDF!
Val ;-)
On Oct 10, 2013, at 8:05 AM, Jonathan Duncan <duncanjonathan at YAHOO.CA> wrote:
Hi Val,
On 10/10/2013 8:55 AM, Valerie Sutton
wrote:
SignWriting List
October 10, 2013
Hello Jonathan!
This is very exciting indeed. If I understand this correctly,
when people enter new signs in the dictionary in SignWriter
Studio, they will be able to associate the sign with different
Sign Lists…for example, the sign for CHAIR could be in the Sign
Lists for FURNITURE and HOUSEHOLD. So each sign could belong to
multiple Sign Lists. Then the user chooses the Sign List
FURNITURE, and the sign for CHAIR will be listed there with
other signs for furniture.
Yes, that's right!!
Then the user can print the Sign List. Can the PDF
automatically place a title at the top saying something like
"Signs for Furniture in _______Sign Language" , with page
numbers?
Yes good idea!!! Thank you for the feedback.
Can signs from SignPuddle be imported into the SignWriter
Studio dictionary?
Yes.
Create or open a SignWriter Studio File.
Click on File/Import
Choose the file previously saved from SignPuddle under the Export
option.
Regards,
Jonathan
Val ;-)
--------
On Oct 10, 2013, at 7:29 AM, Jonathan Duncan <duncanjonathan at YAHOO.CA>
wrote:
Hi all,
please feel free to give point of view and
suggestions.
Hello André
This is a revised list of functionality for making
technical dictionaries for printout from the entries in
the current SignWriter Studio Dictionary from our emails
off the list. We could call these technical dictionaries
"Sign Lists" or "Glossaries" or "Topics". Look forward to
input from members on the list.
Features for first version
Create a new window to show the list of signs in for
each "Sign List".
Click on Add Sign will bring up the Dictionary which
can be searched, then the signs selected to be added
to the current "Sign List".
Sign Lists automatically saved to Dictionary file.
Can select paper size.
Print Layout
Two columns
Words (gloss) at the top of each entry in bold
SignWriting, with Illustration of what it is
beside it.
Keep all entries together, not split across two
pages.
Shrink SignWriting and Illustration if they don't
fit the column width
Signs sorted by word (gloss)
Roman numeral page numbering
Possible future features
Screen paging. The complete list would not be
loaded, at most 100 at a time to not overload the
memory.
In the Dictionary add a place for full spoken
language description.
Option to printout or not description
Option to printout secondary language also
(bilingual option example English and French along
with the sign)
Option to split output into several files. There may
be a problem with PDF: with 10 signs per page we have
800 pages of ASL dictionary full of drawings and
several pictures. Low resolution sign images are
required. It may be problematic to load 800 pages in
adobe to see 1 single word... Possibly split the
dictionary in 5 or 24 documents.
Extra pages either make them or option to include
pre-made pages in PDF.
The user should be able to create a cover page
with text of several lines, and image, several line.
Second page, the editor name, the date, copyright
to Valerie and you and pointer to internet sites.
Several pages of introduction text prior to the
dictionary itself.
Possible a table of content or pointers to jump to a
chosen letter (table of content being undefined until
the page count is completed).
Possibly the first word of each page in the top left
corner to browse fast through a paper document.
Sort signs by Symbol
Let me know your thoughts and suggestions.
Thanks
Jonathan
On 10/4/2013 10:26 AM, André
L wrote:
Hello Duncan,
thank you for your interest in supporting dictionary
generation with SignWriter Studio. I like this
software a lot.
This is my main interest in sign writing. I whish to
support access to rich vocabulary for interpreters,
parents or hearing educator to improve the quality of
the communication with deaf people. The second aspect
is to develop highly technical dictionaries for
students and interpreters to avoid re-inventing custom
signs all the time.
I am a software tester (13 years of experience). Do
you want to discuss specifications, test case
suite... The user guide could be a starting point...
It will be important to be able to exclude signs or
words from such dictionary ( in LSQ sign puddle we
have plenty of plural and feminin version of the same
word and conjugated verbs).
André Lemyre
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2013 09:01:52
-0600
From: duncanjonathan at YAHOO.CA
Subject: Re: Creating a dictionnary
To: SW-L at LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU
Hi André,
Way back I wrote a program called ASL List that
did exactly what you want but it was limited it only
had so many signs. So I decided to and SignWriting
to it and then came about SignWriter Studio.
Presently that feature isn't working but I will work
on that next now that someone else is also
interested!!!
Jonathan
On 10/2/2013 7:09
PM, André L wrote:
Hello Valerie,
I would like to know how to create a paper
dictionary (like a book) by importing ALL LSQ
signs from sign puddle. I could show that to
collegue students, interpreters and use it
myself.
Also, can we develop a technical dictionary
(like for a student electrician) that will also
be part of the main dictionary?
Would there be a way to gather a pdf subset of
the main dictionary that the student could share
with several interpreters working with him-her?
André Lemyre
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2013
17:30:46 -0700
From: signwriting at MAC.COM
Subject: Re: Sign puddle online does not
translate existing words
To: SW-L at LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU
SignWriting List
October 2, 2013
Hello Andre, and Andre, Steve and
Jonathan!
So ….we have some wonderful software that
needs to be better coordinated - but both
programs by themselves work well. Right now,
Steve needs to complete the new SinPuddle 3
and get it uploaded, because it also
contains new features that everyone wants,
and it has taken longer than expected to
complete the software…
Regarding creating your own dictionaries,
there is not only SignWriter Studio, but
also the PersonalPuddle, and Private Web
Puddles, and you can also use SignPuddle
Online and label your signs as yours in the
Source and those signs could always be
transferred to SignWriter Studio maybe? can
one reverse the process? - ha! In time, all
these programs will work well together I am
sure…both Jonathan and Steve work for very
little pay and are working hard to make the
programs work well -
So for now, I would either use the
workaround that Jonathan suggested, or edit
the signs in SignText, not SignMaker… let me
test this myself - I am sorry I have not
done that yet -
SignBank would not work with this because
it has not been updated for years but I want
to update it in the future -
Val ;-)
----
On Oct 2, 2013, at 5:20 PM, André L
<andre-andre at HOTMAIL.CA>
wrote:
Hello Jonathan,
thank you for the work around.
I will try it this weekend.
I will try to contact Steve to
assist me because I have over a
hundred signs to process.
I have many more signs in draft in
SignWriter studio.
Also, I tried sign bank 85 but I
could never upload the Québec Sign
language files I copied from Sign
puddle, so I gave up. I would have
like to build a dictionnary.
André Lemyre
Date:
Wed, 2 Oct 2013 16:29:30 -0600
From: duncanjonathan at YAHOO.CA
Subject: Re: Sign puddle online
does not translate existing words
To: SW-L at LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU
Hi Andre,
When exporting from SignWriter
Studio to Sign Puddle there is no
way to directly to a SignMaker
entry. This is a limitation of
SignPuddle. I have run into this
limitation myself personally
trying to add and modify sign to
the puddle from SignWriter
Studio. SignPuddle doesn't yet
have adequate import/export or
synching capabilities. I have
written to Steve about it but he
hasn't been able to make it a
priority yet.
If you just have a few signs then
this is they way to do it.
In SignWriter Studio when
positioned on the sign, click
Edit/Copy/Copy Sign to Sign
Puddle or press Ctrl-Alt-C.
It shows the sign in
SignPuddle in your browser.
Click on the puddle you want
to save to.
In Terms type "temp"
Click Add
Click Copy Sign From
SignText
Click Copy Sign
Click on SignPuddle you want
to save to
In Terms type in the term
for the sign
Click Add
Click on Search by Words or
Search by Signs
In Terms and Titles type
"temp"
Click on temp
Click Delete Entry
Click Delete Entry
Otherwise you might ask Steve if
you export to an SPML file if he
can add them for you.
I hope his helps
Regards,
Jonathan
On
10/2/2013 11:41 AM, Valerie
Sutton wrote:
SignWriting
List
October 2, 2013
Andre, Steve, Charles and
Jonathan -
No worries everyone. Thank
you for your messages. And
thank you for bringing this
issue up, which as far as I
know, from my experience, is
specific between the two
programs: SignWriter Studio
and SignPuddle. I noticed this
issue myself a long time ago
and did mention it once to
Jonathan, but there is so much
to do it got sidetracked. It
seems that exporting signs
from the SignWriter Studio
dictionary end up as SignText
in SignPuddle instead of
dictionary entries…so the
signs are not made with
SignMaker, but instead with
SignWriter Studio's
dictionary, but they need to
end up as the equivalent to
signs made with SignMaker… not
as SignText …so we need both
Jonathan's and Steve's help
with this one -
Thank you, Andre, by the
way, for your documents - they
are charming! And thank you
for pointing this out to us -
Val ;-)
--------
On Oct 2, 2013, at
10:11 AM, Charles Butler
<chazzer3332000 at YAHOO.COM>
wrote:
IF this
does not work from
a compatible
program then the
compatibility
program of the
major SignWriting
programs need to
all be made
compatible. I know
that this is a
challenge, but
making a new
signwriting
translator without
a compatibility
check seems a
little futile. If
the main database
can't retrieve the
words, then the
point of Open
Source is not
being fulfilled.
To do
Open Source means
that all output from
a given input must
be compatible to the
central databank, in
the case, SignBank,
SignPuddle, and all
of those others
created.
Is it
not part of the spec
of importing signs?
Is there not a
command to say
"which of the
following compatible
programs are you
using to import to
SignPuddle?" "have
you contact Steve
Slevinski to ensure
that the program
will in fact import
your signs in a form
that is acceptable
to the data
retrieval function."
Else,
it is a very large
learning curve.
Charles Butler
chazzer3332000 at yahoo.com
240-764-5748
Clear writing moves
business forward.
From: Stephen E Slevinski Jr <slevin at SIGNPUDDLE.NET>
To: SW-L at LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU
Sent: Wednesday, October 2, 2013 1:03
PM
Subject: Re: Sign puddle online does not
translate
existing words
On 10/2/13
11:37 AM,
André L wrote:
Hello,
Many of the
words I
entered in
sign puddle
using sign
studio are not
displayed in
the translate
feature.
Only the words
are displayed
without sign.
However, with
a seach on the
same words,
the sign is
displayed.
Hi Andre,
The translate
feature works
with
individual
signs that
were created
in SignMaker.
The translate
feature does
not work with
sign texts
that were
created with
SignText.
Looking at the
"assis" entry:
http://www.signbank.org/signpuddle2.0/canvas.php?ui=1&sgn=47&sid=4400
The sign is
boxed and a
lower font
size. This
indicates it
was created
with
SignText.
Under the
"Source", you
can see the
"SignText
data" links.
This sign will
not work in
the current
translate.
Here is
"assistant" in
the same
dictionary.
Notice that it
is not boxed
and a larger
font size.
This indicates
is was created
with
SignMaker.
Under the
"Search.."
links, you can
see the "Sign
data" links.
This sign will
work in
translate.
So that's the
problem. You
say you
created this
with "sign
studio". Are
you talking
about
Jonathan's
SignWriter
Studio? Or
did you use
SignText?
The solution
is to move the
signs from the
sign text area
to individual
signs. I'm
not sure the
best way to do
this.
How many
entries are
like this?
Regards,
________________________________________________
SIGNWRITING
LIST
INFORMATION
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Sutton
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List moderator sutton at signwriting.org
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